Fred Says.................

[Richard A Thackeray]

I'm reading the Fred Dibnah biography, at work at the moment, as written by David Hall (who was his producer)
Mine's the hardback, though

Throughout it, there's transcripts of various sequences
These 2 stand out though




The second one, is split over 2 pages



I remember my own anger at these (as we would now call them) Scrotes, & wanting to join the queue to birch them

I'd try to find it, using various 'word combinations', with no success
However, just now, after I'd looked at a few of his industrial heritage clips, THIS, appears as a suggestion on the YouTube home page...……………

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4hVEViCrXY

 

[Beebo]

Fred says I’m too sexy for my shirt. Right?

 

[Slick]

To be honest, I have nothing but admiration for the man, especially as I have been working at height all my life so I know what it takes to do the things he has done. I just can't agree with him over his views on modern health and safety though, yes we can sometimes wonder where it's all going to end as it's all gone elf and safety mad innit, but just because one man was fortunate enough to go through life without slipping does not mean we all will and who wants to lose their life because of a lousy job?

Still a great guy and much to be admired and remembered.

 

[kevin_cambs_uk]

Fred was a legend

 

[PaulSB]

It’s not difficult to find examples of H&S gone mad, we’ve all seen them. To dismiss H&S in this man though shows an ignorance of why it is so important. You wouldn’t want to work for or with him.

As for the rest? The attitude of a past generation which thankfully will remain in the past. A man of his times, times which are long gone and largely for a better world.

In no way am I condoning the vandalism but violence towards the perpetrators of crime is not the solution.

 

[Richard A Thackeray]

I just can't agree with him over his views on modern health and safety though, yes we can sometimes wonder where it's all going to end as it's all gone elf and safety mad innit, but just because one man was fortunate enough to go through life without slipping does not mean we all will and who wants to lose their life because of a lousy job?
Still a great guy and much to be admired and remembered.

One of the quoted examples was of him being asked to wear a hard-hat on top of a 200ft high chimney, as he stated, what was going to fall on his head
Plus, if he fell off, what good would it do him?

As for the rest? The attitude of a past generation which thankfully will remain in the past. A man of his times, times which are long gone and largely for a better world.
In no way am I condoning the vandalism but violence towards the perpetrators of crime is not the solution.

As he says though, no fear of retribution/recrimination for actions

They knew if they did the wrong thing, there would be trouble.....
Poor little Johnny couldn't help it, he's under a lot of stress

A similar line (variation on words) is used throughout the Country to save muggers, burglars, 'distraction' robbers, etc.... from jail, by defence solicitors

 

[swansonj]

One of the quoted examples was of him being asked to wear a hard-hat on top of a 200ft high chimney, as he stated, what was going to fall on his head
Plus, if he fell off, what good would it do him?
…..

That viewpoint betrays something of a narrowly self-centered approach and a lack of appreciation of the broader challenges in managing safety.

One of the biggest challenges in managing safety in industry is getting people to do what they need to do, but fail to do through laziness or the desire to cut corners or get the job done quickly. In my industry, we have had endless problems getting staff to wear respirators when entering gas trenches and clipping on when climbing pylons. One perfectly valid approach is zero-tolerance. If you remove the acceptance of judgement, and simply don't admit of any excuse for not wearing a respirator or for not clipping on, you can start to achieve compliance and thereby avoid injuries and deaths.

Requiring wearing hard hats when working at height may not be to do with the risk of injury to the head (though I have to say, in my own pylon-climbing days it made perfect sense to me) but to do with establishing a zero-tolerance culture: you wear a hard hat when at work, full stop, no exceptions, no judgement exercised. Then you are more likely - and your less skilful and safety-conscious workmate is more likely - to be wearing it when it is actually needed.

I wouldn't expect an individual worker like Fred to necessarily have that perspective but it's a valid perspective.

 

[Slick]

One of the quoted examples was of him being asked to wear a hard-hat on top of a 200ft high chimney, as he stated, what was going to fall on his head
Plus, if he fell off, what good would it do him?

Nobody just turns up for work and miraculously ends up at height. If you can produce a risk assessment proving there is no risk then you could take your hat off once you get there. Simple.

 

[srw]

Nobody just turns up for work and miraculously ends up at height. If you can produce a risk assessment proving there is no risk then you could take your hat off once you get there. Simple.

I'd prefer to see a risk assessment showing that there is no risk that a hard hat could mitigate, but then I'm a picky little risk manager who likes seeing appropriate rather than inappropriate mitigations of risk.

As it happens, in the H&S context, when I worked for a company where there was real physical danger involved - to our staff and to the public - I was a strong advocate of blanket zero-tolerance approaches for precisely the reasons @swansonj articulates. Individual workers, by and large, are the worst possible assessors of the risks they face. That's partly a human frailty - nuanced risk assessment doesn't come naturally after millions of years of human evolution leading to a fight-or-flight reaction to danger - and partly that once you're exposed to risk regularly you get blind to it.

 

[Slick]

I'd prefer to see a risk assessment showing that there is no risk that a hard hat could mitigate, but then I'm a picky little risk manager who likes seeing appropriate rather than inappropriate mitigations of risk.

As it happens, in the H&S context, when I worked for a company where there was real physical danger involved - to our staff and to the public - I was a strong advocate of blanket zero-tolerance approaches for precisely the reasons @swansonj articulates. Individual workers, by and large, are the worst possible assessors of the risks they face. That's partly a human frailty - nuanced risk assessment doesn't come naturally after millions of years of human evolution leading to a fight-or-flight reaction to danger - and partly that once you're exposed to risk regularly you get blind to it.

No I agree. My point was only to try and illustrate that it's not always health and safety that gives us problems but what some people do with it.

I still remember the first time I was told to wear a hard hat, I won't tell you my reaction but it wasn't pretty. It was the same a year or two later when they said I needed a harness.

 

[classic33]

To be honest, I have nothing but admiration for the man, especially as I have been working at height all my life so I know what it takes to do the things he has done. I just can't agree with him over his views on modern health and safety though, yes we can sometimes wonder where it's all going to end as it's all gone elf and safety mad innit, but just because one man was fortunate enough to go through life without slipping does not mean we all will and who wants to lose their life because of a lousy job?

Still a great guy and much to be admired and remembered.

Nearly killed by his flat cap though.

 

[Drago]

A zero tolerance culture to risk mitigation creates a counter culture of risk taking arising from the belief that the subject is that bit safer to begin with, so can push the perceived boundaries of safe behaviour that little bit further.

Intelligent use of intelligent solutions by intelligent people is the only truly safe method - stupid folk will still die of the dumbs no matter what you try and compell them to do.

 

[bruce1530]

It’s easy to grumble about “Elf ’n’ safety” - and everyone can quote practices and incidents that do seem ridiculous. My own favourite is the chap with no legs - he has metal prosthetics - who was denied access to a site because he wouldn’t put steel toecap boots on the end of them.

But the underlying stats speak for themselves - in the years since the Health & Safety at Work Act was introduced, the likelihood of being killed at work has dropped by about 85%.

 

[Slick]

It’s easy to grumble about “Elf ’n’ safety” - and everyone can quote practices and incidents that do seem ridiculous. My own favourite is the chap with no legs - he has metal prosthetics - who was denied access to a site because he wouldn’t put steel toecap boots on the end of them.

But the underlying stats speak for themselves - in the years since the Health & Safety at Work Act was introduced, the likelihood of being killed at work has dropped by about 85%.

That act is unrecognisable to what it was in 74, i suppose most thing are. I always enjoy boring the pants off learners by telling them the story of who wrote it and why. It usually gives them food for thought.

 

[Electric_Andy]

The problem is, if someone wants to shun H&S regs and do their own thing, that's fine, but what happens to the other people involved if something goes wrong? The ambulance, medics, nurses, families etc. It's all got to be paid for, so no matter how little the person cares about H&S, it's not really their call to make. That's how I interpret it anyway.