Front ‘Dazzling’ light discussion – University project.

[AdamMortlock]

Hi guys,

Thanks to you guys for responding to my earlier posts,

I was hoping that we could have an open discussion on this thread about experiences you have had with 'dazzling' front lights from other cyclist’s lights coming towards you.

It has come to my attention from my research that although the new amazing really bright 2,000+ lumen lights are really, really good for cyclists who are travelling on dark roads and tracks etc... it can cause quite a dazzle to people approaching in the other direction and the full output is not always needed on a ride.

I know there are lights that are dimmable and have different settings (that you may press manually, during or at the beginning of the ride), but I think there may scope to improve on this system in a wide multitude of ways to make lights cleverer and automatic in response to the surrounding environment.

Any thoughts/ experiences and other information you wouldn't mind sharing I would be really appreciative if you would discuss this with me as I want to make sure I understand how you guys as potential users for such a product, feel about this!

(Can I just say please only contribute if you have something constructive to say (positive negative. Don’t just come on here to have a personal feud with me.)

Thanks guys, and I look forward to talking with you all on this topic.

Adam. (BA Product Design student)

 

[shouldbeinbed]

I quite agree it can be a problem if you are hit full in the face by either full beam car lights or badly set excessively powerful lights from a fellow biker. Not only that but when driving into them and blitzed in this undippable manner, the person is putting themselves potentially in danger as they're harming your facility to see them and the surroundings clearly.
I do wonder sometimes whether light marketing should be more explicit to intended usage and there should be a moments consideration before you are seduced by 'ooooh look 2000 lumens, that must be better than 200' and buy something intended for those that enjoy bombing down a pitch dark MTB forest trail at midnight in December in Finland and stick it on their 9-5 commuter hybrid in Guilford.

I ride exactly the sort of unlit country roads you mention as part of a town to town commute and am a big believer in lights to be seen by and lights to see by, but I spend a bit of time when it is time to put the winter extras back on my bikes with my wife driving towards me in the dark on these non streetlamped roads so I can calibrate the placing of my more powerful lights to illuminate the road without confusing passing aircraft too.

Maybe a dippable beam, operated by a push lever rather than dimmable & I wonder if there could be scope for trying a modernised wartime blackout car headlamp shutter grille type option to direct a light intended to illuminate your way, entirely onto the road surface and effectively shield it from presenting a distinct forward beam. Possibly allied to a front facing LED set up to to provide a good quality to be seen by light too. Maybe a bit bulky as a single combo but potentially a solid way of making you both humanely visible and seeing the pot holes all in one package.


edit: I do like my flashing 'to be seen by' lights to show a strobe effect off bollards and other reflectives on the roadside & car numberplates etc, It helps give me a rough idea how far ahead I can reasonably argue I should not not be smidsy'd from.

 

[the snail]

It's not a difficult problem to solve. A properly designed reflector will put the light where you need it without dazzling other road users, then all it takes is for the cyclist to adjust the light so it's pointing at the road and not into the eyes of other road users. Even a low power led is dazzling if it's pointing straight in your eyes.

 

[Ganymede]

I cycle frequently on unlit country roads, anything from 7pm to midnight, and have a normal, bottom-of-range catseye front light (3 LEDs). In my experience all oncoming cars (to be fair, this isn't many) dip their lights for me in very good time.

I've never, ever met a cyclist coming in the other direction, so have no feedback re being dazzled by cyclists. Anecdotally, I would say most people round here would rather skydive than cycle at night, they are so in thrall to the idea of cycling as dangerous.

I have fashioned a plastic hood for my catseye light so it doesn't shine up into my face. I keep it pointed slightly to the ground as I'm more concerned about seeing the road surface (potholes, wet leaves) than finding my way, as I know the route so well - but I can still see my way ahead. There can be problems with overhanging branches suddenly appearing so I have to be able to see all round.

 

[Rob3rt]

Sensible installation, plus an elastic band and a bit of bendy plastic and the problem goes away!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

My standard front light is a Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso R Plus. Its lens is designed so that there is a square cut-off to the top of the beam, as on cars, so that the light does not fill the eyes of oncoming road users. That's all you need, nothing fancier than that. See pic..

I also have a Magicshine setup which I use only on the part of my commute which takes me through an unlit country park, it isn't used where it would dazzle others.
GC

 

[totallyfixed]

I think I may have been banging on about lights that are too powerful / non-directional for 3 or 4 years now, but let's clear something up first. Any light that has a reflector that produces a round beam is not ideal for the road, doesn't matter how many lumens it claims to throw out, [and most are greatly exaggerated anyway] most of it is not hitting the target area, ie the road. I run a Supernova Airstream and my better half has an Exposure Strada, both designed in the same way as a dipped car headlight. There is no need for anything more as we just set up the light so it points a long way down the road but the cut off is still below that of a car windscreen / oncoming cyclists head.
If you compare our lights with much more powerful ones that do not have a cut off, the amount of light hitting the road [where you want it] is greater and more effective with the Strada and Airstream despite being less "powerful". Lights have now got so powerful that it can only be a matter of time before they are regulated, certainly in Germany this is the case and all their bike lights must conform and not dazzle other road users. Unfortunately the UK is [excuse pun] light years behind. I am bemused that more light manufacturers don't produce dipped bike lights given the danger, especially on dark narrow rural roads from vehicles coming in the opposite direction.

 

[simon.r]

I was 'flashed' by a couple of oncoming cars the other evening because my light had rotated slightly around my bars and was pointing too high. To be fair it was entirely my fault - I should have realised earlier.

As far as I can see the solution to this would be some sort of self-levelling system for the light (which I believe some cars have), but I suspect the cost and weight would make it very impractical for cycle use.

 

[Ganymede]

As far as I can see the solution to this would be some sort of self-levelling system for the light (which I believe some cars have), but I suspect the cost and weight would make it very impractical for cycle use.

Quite, and completely unnecessary. *moves hand slightly to the right, pokes front of light down, resumes first position*

 

[totallyfixed]

Quite, and completely unnecessary. *moves hand slightly to the right, pokes front of light down, resumes first position*

I see 2 problems here, firstly many lights are not easily moved because they are clamped tight to the bars, and secondly if you did point the light down then you are compromising your own field of vision. If cars have been able to produce dipped lights for ever why can't bikes have the same. Make no mistake, bike lights will be regulated,. if only because some are now as powerful as a car.
In about 30 mins I shall be heading out on to very dark rural lanes for a 20 mile ride, I have complete confidence that I will be able to see as well as any car and the chelsea tractor coming towards me will not be dazzled, all in all a good thing.

 

[PpPete]

Two lights.
One dynamo (Philips Saferide FWIW) - mounted on fork crown, complies with German regs so unlikely to dazzle anyone.
one cheapo Chinese CREE XML-U2 torch mounted in a lockblock on the bars near my right hand. Bright enough for 35 mph + descents where the gradient allows. Mounting is sufficiently flexible that with a twitch of the thumb I can re-aim it from the road right up into a driver's eyes if he doesn't look like he's seen me, or fails to dip his lights. Equally I can cover the lens with my hand for a polite driver who does dip his lights.

Auto system to do all that?
Sure - if it doesn't weigh any more, is reliable, cheap....

 

[Ganymede]

I see 2 problems here, firstly many lights are not easily moved because they are clamped tight to the bars, and secondly if you did point the light down then you are compromising your own field of vision.

You're right - mine is easily moved as it's just on a plastic fixing - fairly tight but it can get knocked out of place (and as easily restored). Personally I can't see myself ever needed a light as bright as a car's as I don't cycle that fast. I suspect that if high-tech lights get invented, they will be bought by people who don't really need them, partly through tech-envy and partly because they will be persuaded by marketing that they do.

 

[fossyant]

I use my super bright lights for off road. On road commutes it's more sensible stuff like my Hope Vision 1's.

 

[PK99]

I've had two instances recently:

On the bike: Cycle track off the road, cyclist coming toward me with VERY bright light set horizontally. I had to stop and let him pass. I could see nothing other than his light.

In the car: Cyclist coming toward me with 3 very bright flashing lights- Bike, body, helmet. Again I found it very difficult to see anything other than his lights. This was on a well lit urban road.

The problem is with bright LEDS set horizontally, such that the oncomer is looking directly into the light. If set pointed slightly down such that the cone of bright light illuminates the road for a sensible distance in front, the problem for the oncomer of looking directly into the light is avoided but they can plainly see the light.

Part of the problem seems to be some folks using lights designed really for off road/mtb use, where a horizontal setting to give as wide and long a field of illumination as possible is the design intent.

 

[Bodhbh]

I use Ayups. I know they have the potential to dazzle, because when I first intalled them I got flashed a few times till it dawned on my. Now I have them angled down and don't get flashed, but it's a compremise, as angled down they don't always light enough of the road ahead as I'd like.

I've not been dazzled on the road for a while by other cyclists. However it's quite common down shared use cycle path I use. I turn mine off down here, but there's a few that have there's blasting away. Problem is you can see nothing but the light and can't make eye contact or read the body language of the cyclists coming in the opposite direction. As there's only 6ft or so width of path you can't read which side to pass. Nearly ran into someguy blinding me last night as I couldn't second guess him and with both headed for the same side of the path. The bright lights were totally counter productive in this case. I will admit to angling mine up and giving them a blast a couple of times to drop a hint. The peds and dog walkers must really hate it too.