Frustration...Liverpool Chaingang.

[yenrod]

Through and off - there are a few ways -

Lead rider rides hard then peals off as the rest of the bunch come through on the inside. If there are only 3, then rider peals off the front and has to get back on the back quick.

If there is a big group, you'll get two lines - inside line going quicker than the outside line. Think of it as the riders rotating their road position.

It only works well when the other riders co-operate properly, and pull as a team.

With three, you can also just take turns at the front, and then the next freshest rider will come through to the front - i.e. come round you rather than you peal off.

Chain gangs work better with more riders, but the intention is training, and anyone not up to it will get shelled out the back - bit crap when this happens and there are only three riders - bloody pointless dropping people.

Club runs are generally at a slower pace - chain gangs don't take prisoners....

Fossy, Ive been riding these for at leastyrs.

The Deal was as I pointed out in the 1st post was that you had ONE rider doing long turns and another doing shorter turns !

And if there are only 3 of you – that’s a bit inconclusive…

Its amazing how many riders ride a chainy yet don’t know how to ride em properly !

 

[Tetedelacourse]

I don't understand a word of your posts Yenrod.

Admittedly I have never ridden in a "chainy" though!

 

[yenrod]

TETE' - where I type 'chainy' the English (your language) translation means....

:C H A I N G A N G

I'll remember to translate from 'liverpool' speak. ​

 

[DerbyMerc]

The way we do it is through and off but coming up the outside to the front and then straight off - there's a hill just over a third distance which can split things up depending on who's out and how fast it is. We have a steady group that set off first that tend to get overtaken just about at the hill so anyone that is dropped from the faster group can either wait for them or else do their own thing or join up with others that have been dropped. Later on it tends to be stronger riders taking turns and others doing what they can - works well though.

New riders getting dropped can be a problem because you don't want them getting disheartened but at the same time you've got your own training to do. I normally have a chat to anyone I don't recognise before the off and if they do get dropped might drop back and advise them to wait for the other group coming up or whatever. On a wet night with only a few out you might slow the pace to stick together.

 

[bonj2]

No bonj, once again you completely miss the point by trying to simplify everything into your world or your experience. Often the faster rider will take the front, whilst slower riders will 'tag on' utilising the well understood principles of slipstreaming to maintain contact and making their effort easier. Such is not the case here, as Yenrod clearly explained.

You really haven't thought this through. If you do as you say, then the weakest riders do all the work. The idea in a mixed group is that the stronger riders take a longer turn and do more work, pulling the group along.

yeah, i get that. But it should work out evenly - surely when the strongest rider is ahead, if they pull off into the distance, then they're not riding at the speed of the slowest, and it will be split up. But if they ride at such a pace as the others can keep up, then eventually the strongest rider will get slightly tired compared to the others for riding into the wind, and the others will be able to overtake, but then when they've been at the front they'll get slightly tired more quickly and will drop back again sooner. And the strongest will take the lead again.
What I don't get is how it's a problem if someone else isn't being fair in taking their turn at the front, surely you just go slower until they overtake, then get in behind them...

So the only problems i can envisage are people going too fast, or people going too slow. If the strongest rider is going too fast for the others to keep up with him even with them in his slipstream, then that's just a race. The only other problem I can see is people going deliberately slow just so someone else would go in front and take the wind when it isn't necessarily their turn to - is that what was happening to you yenrod?

 

[DerbyMerc]

On a related theme - sometimes very strong riders do lack an appreciation of the fact that just because you aren't taking equal turns at the front doesn't mean you aren't "working". I never have a problem with riders sitting on if that's either their limit or what they want from that session - of course it's different if they suddenly find the legs to leave you struggling off the back whenever the road goes up.

 

[yenrod]

yeah, i get that. But it should work out evenly - surely when the strongest rider is ahead, if they pull off into the distance, then they're not riding at the speed of the slowest, and it will be split up. But if they ride at such a pace as the others can keep up, then eventually the strongest rider will get slightly tired compared to the others for riding into the wind, and the others will be able to overtake, but then when they've been at the front they'll get slightly tired more quickly and will drop back again sooner. And the strongest will take the lead again.
What I don't get is how it's a problem if someone else isn't being fair in taking their turn at the front, surely you just go slower until they overtake, then get in behind them...

So the only problems i can envisage are people going too fast, or people going too slow. If the strongest rider is going too fast for the others to keep up with him even with them in his slipstream, then that's just a race. The only other problem I can see is people going deliberately slow just so someone else would go in front and take the wind when it isn't necessarily their turn to - is that what was happening to you yenrod?

No, it was 1 - no agreement (between everyone) and 2 - one pulling longer and one pulling shorter turns..

On a related theme - sometimes very strong riders do lack an appreciation of the fact that just because you aren't taking equal turns at the front doesn't mean you aren't "working". I never have a problem with riders sitting on if that's either their limit or what they want from that session - of course it's different if they suddenly find the legs to leave you struggling off the back whenever the road goes up.

Yes, Derby' - this is exactly it: a lot of chaingaings DO end up going crazy = thats ok at the end but not half-way thru' just because some riders can get the miles in more than others and totally trounce everyone else.

I, like you, iff feeling good will happily bridge gaps and the like but when someone upon you needing to pass puts the power on TOO long then that creates tension and I WILL say something now..as to to be able to contribute nice allroundeffort but when you get two or more who know each other then things can get a bit stupid ie no-allroundeffort...

Ive been out many times with various groups and the atmosphere are totally different from Warrington to the Liverpool Mercury for example. The former is very open and as long as you ride with them respectfully then no worries BUT the Mercury is critically 'cliquey' and they are not open to others sadly.

Then again, I feel its an area aspect than anything else...

For those around the country: does your 'ride' mind riders who arent in your club riding with'em

 

[Dave5N]

Depends whose 'in'. Most people round here know everyone. Some rides are training, all comers. Some are more about the club and for members.

I can't keep up with the racing community anymore.

50 miles at 20-25 is well beyond me now.

 

[Monty Dog]

So, you turn up at a 'chaingang' and expect a training ride? Chaingangs by their nature are unorganised and are very much driven by the riders who turn up - sounds like you got three mismatched riders. On my training rides with mates, we wind it up but ease-off if someone's struggling - but I wouldn't expect that from a club chaingang - you blow and it's your own way home.

 

[bonj2]

So, you turn up at a 'chaingang' and expect a training ride? Chaingangs by their nature are unorganised and are very much driven by the riders who turn up - sounds like you got three mismatched riders. On my training rides with mates, we wind it up but ease-off if someone's struggling - but I wouldn't expect that from a club chaingang - you blow and it's your own way home.

sounds a lot like a race to me. How is that NOT a race?

 

[yenrod]

sounds a lot like a race to me. How is that NOT a race?

Thats why, Bonj' - I talked in the 1st post of an Agreement: a steady post - but no, many do not know the the vibe of an agreement..

It could be done but if the group does not have a 'team atmosphere' then, its...

'all for one : one for one.

I believe this atmosphere holds sway with all, if not most, groups

 

[DerbyMerc]

sounds a lot like a race to me. How is that NOT a race?

A race is different. On a chain gang you wouldn't normally sit in for a bit then attack off the front - or if you did I don't think you'd be popular.

 

[BC BOOTLE]

Liverpool Mercury very clicky....not for me...if anyone wants a " leisurely " ride north Liverpool Sunday morning ,give me a shout

 

[subaqua]

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