Fun with Grammar.

[alecstilleyedye]

Yes, I like that sign. I'm normally a bit of a stickler for spelling and stuff, but I look at that and think "We all know what it means, what's the problem?"

I can never quite remember the correct spelling myself, how many cs, or ls there should be. That just says it like it is.

but how would someone know of it's italian origins? spelt brockley that it looks like it has something to do with english badgers...

 

[Maz]

It isn't though. "The gaffer and I had a chat..." is, because I and the gaffer are doing stuff. "He got all arsey with the gaffer and I..." is wrong because it's about stuff being done to us. You wouldn't say, 'he came to the shops with I'.

Sorry for the confusion. I'm talking about "Graham and I" in isolation, which is correct.

I don't understand what's wrong with 'a myriad of' Can you explain?

 

[yello]

How about a title, as in a film or book? 'Withnail and I' for instance. How does 'Withnail and me' scan? Actually, I think there is a 'someone and me' title isn't there? No thoughts myself really, just thinking out loud.

 

[Maz]

[QUOTE 1684636, member: 45"]It's never in isolation though.

"Graham and I went to the shops"
"He went to the shops with Graham and me"

I can't think of an example where "Graham and I" would be written or said in isolation, without being related to a question or statement.[/quote]
So what's wrong with it being the answer to a question?

 

[Maz]

How about a title, as in a film or book? 'Withnail and I' for instance.

The King and I.

 

[yello]

So what's wrong with it being the answer to a question?

Mr Paul did refer to that specifically.

I can't think of an example where "Graham and I" would be written or said in isolation, without being related to a question or statement.

Arguably, if it's an answer, it's an abbreviation of a fuller, underlying statement. That is;

Q: Who went to the shops?
A: Graham and I/me (went to the shops)

 

[swee'pea99]

Who was it gave the bishop a bloody good hiding?

Graham and I.

The myriad thing is that I was taught that myriad is a synonym for 'many'. Hence a myriad of = a many of. Apparently, however, while that is one accepted definition of myriad, there is another. According to this online dictionary:

"Recent criticism of the use of myriad as a noun, both in the plural form myriads and in the phrase a myriad of, seems to reflect a mistaken belief that the word was originally and is still properly only an adjective. As the entries here show, however, the noun is in fact the older form, dating to the 16th century. The noun myriad has appeared in the works of such writers as Milton (plural myriads) and Thoreau (a myriad of), and it continues to occur frequently in reputable English. There is no reason to avoid it."

We learn something new every day, eh?

 

[ASC1951]

I really cannot understand why some folk get so worked up about grammar; and I say that as someone with a Classics background, who had all the rules drummed into him from Homer right up to Fowler's English Usage.

Language is a medium for conveying meaning. If someone's grammar impedes that, it matters; if not, it doesn't. The way we speak and write is a product of our individual education, background, linguistic heritage, the circumstances and the intended listener or reader. It has diddly squat to do with anyone's intelligence, culture or worth as a human being. People who delight in pointing out the 'correct' usage should bog off and do something more productive with their time.

 

[Aperitif]

A myriad pyramids of sand, myriads of grains jostling each other, escaping the point from which they started...I'm getting to like this 'myri' word!

 

[yello]

The way we speak and write is a product of our individual education, background, linguistic heritage, the circumstances and the intended listener or reader. It has diddly squat to do with anyone's intelligence, culture or worth as a human being.

I couldn't agree more. Sadly, we all make assumptions based on the way people speak.

There are some interesting studies in the field of socio-linguistics where those very perceptions have been collated, tabulated, etc. It's taken seriously. Some companies locate their call centres on the basis of such studies!

 

[goo_mason]

I agree it should be practice (noun) and not practise (at least in British English, anyway).

My pet peeve is the supermarket check-out signs saying 'Ten Items Or Less'. I heard somewhere that some supermarkets were going to adopt 'Up to 10 Items' instead.

It's not just the 'less' vs 'fewer' in supermarkets. Have a look at the 'Next customer please' dividers on any Tesco checkout in the UK. My daughter was 10 when she pointed out that they were missing an apostrophe and they all say "Dont forget your Clubcard".

 

[Cubist]

I really cannot understand why some folk get so worked up about grammar; and I say that as someone with a Classics background, who had all the rules drummed into him from Homer right up to Fowler's English Usage.

Language is a medium for conveying meaning. If someone's grammar impedes that, it matters; if not, it doesn't. The way we speak and write is a product of our individual education, background, linguistic heritage, the circumstances and the intended listener or reader. It has diddly squat to do with anyone's intelligence, culture or worth as a human being. People who delight in pointing out the 'correct' usage should bog off and do something more productive with their time.

That's fine, as long as you understand that you need to know the basics (and even some of the fancier aspects) in order for the language to be used in teh first place.

 

[Cubist]

The prohibition on splitting infinitives has been dead in the water for a generation or more. .

Indeed. I'm totally blaming William Shatner

 

[Cubist]

Take out the other people and if it doesn't make sense with me, myself or I then it's the other one!
[Graham and] I went to the shops
He went to the shops with [Graham and] me.

Good working rule of thumb, but can't anyone explain the difference in terms of nominative vs accusative?

 

[Archie_tect]

...but can't anyone explain the difference in terms of nominative vs accusative?

Yes I can't.... or do I mean no?