Garmin 705 or SatMap ?

[redfox]

Basemaps are worse than no map. Major roads only drawn to a level of accuracy that would have made a 16th century cartographer blush and non-routeable to boot!

Your going to have to spend more money I am afraid!

 

[Bollo]

Just got myself a garmin 705 and am so far quite happy with its functionality as a cycle computer, HRM, data-logger, GPS recorder etc. (only been out with it twice so far though).

However - I didn't find any web reviews that mention what 'built-in basemap' map the 705 ships with so went ahead and took a gamble on the 705 (over the cheaper 305), and (unless I've missed something on a settings menu) it is pretty poor considering that it is designed for cyclists - so far as I can tell it has only A-Roads, Motorways and railway lines.

Yep, garmin are pretty coy about this. Luckily I found out before the unit arrived an bought myself the topo map. This gives you the routing etc. If you're just into road biking then I'd stick with one of the road-only map products rather than worry about the contours and feature info on the topo maps (they ain't that good anyways)

Also, the routing algorithm in the 705 isn't cycle specific, so it'll happily send me down the M3 to work. "Sorry officer, my bike computer said it was ok!". To create a cycle-friendly route, you'll need to get to grips with Garmin's MapSource application, which comes free with any map product or can be downloaded from the web site. This is worthy of an essay in itself, but to summarise you need to.......

1. Draw a 'route' with the autorouting enabled to fill in the gaps between waypoints.
2. If the autorouting chooses a way that you don't like, you can add further waypoints to force it.
3. Download the route to the 705
4. If the route is >20-30 miles, the 705 will report that the route has been truncated.
5. You look at the 705 route. It is clearly not right.
6. You consult the manual. Hahahaha you're funny, Bollo.
7. You consult the web.
8. You download a program called wingdb that will convert a Garmin Route to a Garmin Track
9. Copy the Garmin Track on to your 705
10. Now navigate according to the track. Easy!

To summarise, great hardware, shocking software.

 

[redfox]

Alternatively, you can use MapSource to draw a track rather than a route which avoids steps 2 to 8 on the above advice. (You might need to make the track editing toolbar visible from the view menu first).

The track design tools do not feature auto-routing, which is usually a good thing because auto-routing will increase the number of points in a track by several orders of magnitude - reducing the length of track that can be stored before you hit your GPS's limit.

 

[Bollo]

Alternatively, you can use MapSource to draw a track rather than a route which avoids steps 2 to 8 on the above advice. (You might need to make the track editing toolbar visible from the view menu first).

The track design tools do not feature auto-routing, which is usually a good thing because auto-routing will increase the number of points in a track by several orders of magnitude - reducing the length of track that can be stored before you hit your GPS's limit.

You can, but the autorouting with routes on MapSource does have its uses, as it follows the roads faithfully, so all you have to do is click at the junctions. Converting a route to a track using wingdb is a pain in buttocks, but after you've done it once, you can usually do the same thing again in less than a minute. This is still a lot quicker than creating a reasonably accurate track by following the roads manually. Also, if you're using the topo maps and are colour-blind like me, its sometimes very difficult to make out the roads from contours and the other random hatchings on Mapsource at all, so autorouting helps with this. A user option to change feature colours? How 21st Century! Don't be silly.

As for the track limit, its pretty high on the 705 (50,000 points?). Windgb does a good job balancing the number of points with track accuracy, but you can always filter as well. Several orders of magnitude is a little OTT, my last route (45 miles on lots of fiddly unclassified roads) took 845 track points when converted using wingdb. I doubt you'd be able to draw the same route with 8 points.

From venturing on to the garmin forums, there sometimes seems to be a perverse pleasure in these 'features', as they make it all so 'complicated' and 'technical'. The 705, and more to the point Mapsource, are consumer products, and should behave consistently and predictably with the minimum of fuss. Mapsource is certainly more like prototype or research bit of code, where you're always fighting and working around impementation issues.

Ranty rant rant!

 

[andrew_s]

Just got myself a garmin 705 and am so far quite happy with its functionality as a cycle computer, HRM, data-logger, GPS recorder etc. (only been out with it twice so far though).

However - I didn't find any web reviews that mention what 'built-in basemap' map the 705 ships with so went ahead and took a gamble on the 705 (over the cheaper 305), and (unless I've missed something on a settings menu) it is pretty poor considering that it is designed for cyclists - so far as I can tell it has only A-Roads, Motorways and railway lines.

The built-in base map is fairly useless.

To get decent maps on screen, you have to pay extra for the mapping data.
Options are (with GPSW links):
City Navigator UK&Ireland on SD card £50
City Navigator Europe on SD card £80
Mapsource Europe Metroguide CD £113
Mapsource City Navigator Europe DVD £140
Mapsource Topo GB £150

The SD cards just plug in and give you the detailed and accurate maps that you want. They also allow auto-routing, so you can drive the pointer to a place, press the enter button, and get navigated there. It's also fairly simple to set up a route in a similar fashion (or at least it is on my 60CSx).
However, they aren't usable on your PC. You'd have to set up routes using an incarnation of google maps, memoryMap, or something.
The cards will almost certainly be copy-protected.

Mapsource Metroguide allows routes to be set up on the PC and downloaded onto the GPS. You can also download the maps onto you own micro-SD cards. However, although there is auto routing on the PC, there isn't on the GPS unless you get one of the applications that hack the data to allow it - google "metrogold".

Mapsource City Navigator allows auto routing on the PC, and on the GPS using data that's been downloaded onto SD card

Topo GB is as for City Navigator, but covers GB only, and gives extra background data in the form of contours, streams, some footpaths, areas of woodland. This is useful off road, but if you are on road it's just extra clutter that makes it harder to see where the roads are.

Licencing on Mapsource maps is that you can create as many SD cards as you want, but they will only work with 2 GPS units that you've registered with Garmin.
What some people do is create the cards and sell the CDs on ebay so that the purchaser can use the 2nd GPS registration. If they then upgrade their own GPS, they have to buy another (up to date) copy of the mapsource data.

Auto routing means that you can create a route from a small number of well separated waypoints, and the GPS will navigate between them, so to go from Gloucester to Heathrow, I might have points at Sapperton, Cerney Wick, Hannington, Compton, Henley, White Waltham, Windsor, Horton and Heathrow, and then leave the GPS to pick the shortest route from point to point and direct me along it.
Without auto-routing, I'd have to put a point on every turn (at least), then follow the on-screen arrow at each junction.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Wow, sounds like the 705 isn't the device to get if you want to navigate. With the Vista HCx and City Navigator mapping, there isn't any of that nonsense, and Mapsource works beautifully.

 

[Bollo]

Once you've got used to the idea of the pfaff of designing routes, the 705 is great for navigation. Its mapsource that I have issues with.

 

[itisaboutthebike]

I think that one of the biggest drawbacks of the 705 - from the posts here - is that there isn't a dedicated 'bike mode' when you want to use to it to navigate somewhere ie if you're not careful you'll end up on a motorway (thats if I'm correct in what I'm interperting on some of the posts)

You'd have thought Garmin would have nailed that one for starters - perhaps they've realised and a 'fix' will come in a future firmware upgrade ?

 

[CopperBrompton]

Really? I love Mapsource - it's my biggest reason for sticking with Garmin GPS units. Under a minute to plot a fiddly 20-mile backroads route - what's not to love?

Ben

 

[itisaboutthebike]

No - I mean on the fly when you're on the bike.

I am incorrect ?

 

[CopperBrompton]

Mapsource is the PC software. If you have issues with on-the-fly use, then that's with the 705 itself. I've not used it, so don't know how it compares to other Garmins.

When the 705 is connected to your PC, you ought to be able to use Mapsource to set the preferences. Set small roads to maximum preference and highways to minimum, and it should generally then give sensible cycle routes (though it won't know about off-road options).

 

[Bollo]

When the 705 is connected to your PC, you ought to be able to use Mapsource to set the preferences. Set small roads to maximum preference and highways to minimum, and it should generally then give sensible cycle routes (though it won't know about off-road options).

You can, but its hard work (setting roads and areas to avoid) and the results still seem to treat you as a very slow car, rather than as a bike. Its not helped by some of the options which are very Americanised (is the M3 an interstate highway between the states of Hampshire and Surrey? - whats a Collector Road?!?)

I don't believe full autorouting (i.e. just setting the start and end and letting the device do the rest) for cycling is doable anyway, as finding a safe enjoyable route that meets your needs relies either some local knowledge or a bit of research. I can think of some sections of A road that are fine for cycling and some local backroads that are evil racetracks.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Agreed - I generally plot cycle routes using Mapsource, but with those prefs set I find it usually gives pretty good routes if I decide to wander off-track and then want it to navigate me home.

 

[itisaboutthebike]

Crikey - I didn' think when I started this post it would have over 5,000 hits and 45 posts !

Just goes to show how much interest there is in these products.

 

[skids]

Another routing question (great advice on here BTW - thanks). I tried out the Mapsource Route / Convert to track malarkey today and it worked fine. Question I have is that when I follow a route I've set up on my etrex Venturethe instructions I get say turn right / left etc but the route instructions on the 705 say go East / West etc. Any ideas?