"Get on the side of the road!"

[Ian Cooper]

I'm not generally in favour of adding to the proliferating number of road signs, but this one from America is clear and to the point...

It is a great sign. Unfortunately, in practice, the Department of Transportation seems unwilling to install it, except on quiet side streets that don't need it, and the sign has two unfortunate byproducts:

1. It makes motorists think that roads that display it are the only roads cyclists are allowed on.

2. It makes motorists think that on other roads, cyclists must ride in the gutter. In reality, cyclists may use the full lane on any road.

 

[wintonbina]

When I lived in Boston, Massachusetts, I used to walk my daughter to school - it was about a quarter of a mile, so about 5 minutes walk. About half way there - so about 200 yards from the school - I would walk by the house of one of my daughter's schoolmates. Every school day, her mother would put the kid in the car, drive her the 200 yards to school, and then drive home again. That's how addicted to cars our society is today.

And I'm not immune. In 1970, when I was an 8 year-old kid, My mum and I used to think nothing of walking the two miles from my house in Shortheath into Willenhall, Staffordshire. These days, I'd never consider walking that far.

Can't understand why you would want to leave such a beautiful place like Shortheath!

 

[Davidc]

It is true of course that our roads are overcrowded. But, I feel much happier on my local roads now than I did in the 80's (I have no experience of city commuting).
I think as was said earlier, that it's more to do with the absence of bikes on the roads for a decade or so. There are so many more bikes around now, and, although SOME motorists may be cursing our very existence, a lot more seem resigned to the fact we are traffic also.
Maybe we need to remember as well that the 'metal iddytwit carrier' is mainly a creature of solitude and doesn't mix well with it's own kind either.

Totally agree.

The worst time I can remember was actually the mid '70s but driver behaviour and attitudes to cyclists were dreadful all the way through the 70s, 80s and 90s.

It is certaily true that cyclist numbers dropped and traffic planners made road design as difficult as possible for bikes during those decades, but there was never an absence of bikes, just a smaller number.

My observation is certainly that although we have a mountain to climb to get proper coexistence on our roads things have got very much better over the past 20 years and in particular the last 10. The greatest improvement is in my view in London. I rode from SW London (Cheam) to Kensington at peak time a few weeks back, and couldn't believe how much more pleasant it was than when I did it regularly in the late 60s and 70s, and again for a while in the 80s. One of the important factors is very clearly that in the 70s and 80s it had become unusual to see many other cyclists on the way, whereas on my trip in March there were so many we were getting in each others way.

 

[CopperCyclist]

It is a great sign. Unfortunately, in practice, the Department of Transportation seems unwilling to install it, except on quiet side streets that don't need it, and the sign has two unfortunate byproducts:

1. It makes motorists think that roads that display it are the only roads cyclists are allowed on.

2. It makes motorists think that on other roads, cyclists must ride in the gutter. In reality, cyclists may use the full lane on any road.

I also believe that in some states, there actually is a 'FRAP' rules for cyclists - I.e. they must be as far right as possible, meaning it could be illegal for them to be in primary unless given 'permission'.

Our system may well be better in that respect.

 

[Ian Cooper]

Can't understand why you would want to leave such a beautiful place like Shortheath!

It's funny - thanks to this thread, I just looked at street view in Google Maps and was surprised how run-down it is now. Not as I remembered it. Of course, in 1970, I think it was quite a new housing development. I had just moved from Bingham, Notts, which now appears to be quite a nice village.

 

[Ian Cooper]

I also believe that in some states, there actually is a 'FRAP' rules for cyclists - I.e. they must be as far right as possible, meaning it could be illegal for them to be in primary unless given 'permission'.

Our system may well be better in that respect.

I posted on my blog (The Desegregated Cyclist) a few weeks ago about cycling laws, and I don't know any states that have 'far right as possible'. Many have 'far right as practicable', which law enforcement usually misreads as 'possible', but which technically allows cyclists to ride safely. In Maryland, we have 'far right as safe and practicable', which generally (and arguably) allows me to take primary. However, MD also forces me to use a bike lane if one is present, which is bad, since most bike lanes are substandard or in the door zone of parked cars. A mile from my house is the infamous 'stupidest bike lane in America'.

 

[atbman]

I also believe that in some states, there actually is a 'FRAP' rules for cyclists - I.e. they must be as far right as possible, meaning it could be illegal for them to be in primary unless given 'permission'.
Our system may well be better in that respect.

This is what many US drivers think. Actually, the Federal Uniform Vehicle Code is:
§ 11-1205 Position on roadway
(a) Any person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including but not limited to: fixed or moving objects; parked or moving vehicles; bicycles; pedestrians; animals; surface hazards; or substandard width lanes that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a motor vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
4. When riding in the right-turn-only lane.
Thsi wording has been pretty much adopted, with only minor variations, by all states. So the situation is pretty much the same, in practice, as over on this side of the pond.

Reactions to cyclists, by the US public in letters to newspapers, seem to be vitriolic at a different order of magnitude to those in or own media. As I'm sure Ian cooper will confirm

 

[CopperCyclist]

Ah, I stand corrected then, and happily too. It was another forum, and a video on YouTube of a cyclist being given a ticket for not being as FRAP that made me believe this. The videos quite funny actually, as he then deliberately travels in the cycle lane, hitting every obstacle in it - including at the end a parked police car.

 

[BentMikey]

Ah, I stand corrected then, and happily too. It was another forum, and a video on YouTube of a cyclist being given a ticket for not being as FRAP that made me believe this. The videos quite funny actually, as he then deliberately travels in the cycle lane, hitting every obstacle in it - including at the end a parked police car.

Ah, that was a ticket for not using the cycle lane, which he paid, but it turned out that it was a badly written ticket for an offence that didn't exist, so his video was his way of getting back at the problem, and to educate everyone else so they wouldn't forget about it.

 

[Ian Cooper]

Reactions to cyclists, by the US public in letters to newspapers, seem to be vitriolic at a different order of magnitude to those in or own media. As I'm sure Ian cooper will confirm

I'd imagine that's right. Although I don't have much experience with the British side of things, what I've seen here in the US makes me suspect it's worse here than anywhere. I imagine Britain comes close though, from what I've seen of British motorists' oft spoken remarks about 'road tax'.

Ah, that was a ticket for not using the cycle lane, which he paid, but it turned out that it was a badly written ticket for an offence that didn't exist, so his video was his way of getting back at the problem, and to educate everyone else so they wouldn't forget about it.

The radio host in the video said it didn't exist, and it may not have at the time. But now it does exist - it's now against the law to ride outside of a bike lane in NY state, if one is present.

That was a great video. I still occasionally watch it on Youtube - classic!

 

[BentMikey]

Do you have a reference for that? I'd be super surprised, since it'd be an infringement of your right to travel.

 

[machew]

Ah, I stand corrected then, and happily too. It was another forum, and a video on YouTube of a cyclist being given a ticket for not being as FRAP that made me believe this. The videos quite funny actually, as he then deliberately travels in the cycle lane, hitting every obstacle in it - including at the end a parked police car.

 

[Ian Cooper]

Do you have a reference for that? I'd be super surprised, since it'd be an infringement of your right to travel.

Here's the relevant part of the NY law: http://www.safeny.ny.gov/bike-vt.htm#sec1234
"Upon all roadways, any bicycle or in-line skates shall be driven either on a usable bicycle or in-line skates lane or, if a usable bicycle or in-line skates lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway or upon a usable right-hand shoulder..."

Similar mandatory bicycle facility use laws (differently worded) apply in 18 US states (including MD, where I live). See: http://ianbrettcooper.blogspot.com/2012/01/invictus.html

Sadly, the government sees it as NOT an infringement on our right to travel, since we can still travel, albeit on a different path. Also, the US Constitution, as I understand it, does not explicitly guarantee a 'right to travel', though most experts agree that it is so basic a right that the framers of the constitution simply didn't think to include it.

 

[gambatte]

IMO its not cars that slow down bikes. Its drivers that slow down cyclists

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Just what I was thinking! Here in the US, it seems they only get made to help us feel better about the good old US of A, or helping us to see why the next country we're going to invade desperately needs to be invaded.

careful of the interwebby thingmy policing, I watch CSI, me, I do!