Getting fed up of Motorcyclists pulling this stunt

[Deleted member 26715]

The law regarding ASLs is ill thought out and outdated. A motorcycle is just as vulnerable when along side a vehicle in traffic as a bicycle. The only difference being that a motorcycle can use its performance to accelerate away from another vehicle as they both approach a pinch point.

When cycling you need to be in the primary well before that arises, or hanging behind the larger vehicle and not risk getting squeezed.

As motorcycles are already allowed in bus lanes in Bristol, Swindon, London, etc and national policy is now to allow them access where the risk is not elevated, this should also be the case for their access to the ASL's. I suspect that this would need a rewrite of the highway code, and not a local bylaw as is done with the bus lanes now.

Sorry this is a slight hi-jack but lack of co-ordination between councils make it very difficult as a Motocyclist when entering a new town/city to work out whether you have access to Bus Lanes is allowed, sometimes the signage is somewhat lacking.

Alan...

 

[Linford]

You mean that motorcyclists are not really in control of their vehicles? That sounds a bit worrying.

About as worrying as people wanting to be the first away from an ASL on a cycle as they are a bit wobbly at low speed.

 

[tonyhalsall]

Personally, I am not 100% convinced at all of the safety case being made for ASL's particularly with the amount of anti-cyclist sentiment that is out there.
I probably do the worst in both cases but it always feels safer:
1) I will filter (offside) to the ASL on the motorbike or if there is not one there I sit just in front of the offside of the driver of the second vehicle.
2) On a bicycle I will filter (offside) to the second vehicle and position my self in front of them to know absolutely that they have seen me and won't attempt to overtake at the crossing simply because they can't - as a result of there being another vehicle being in front of me.

 

[Linford]

That is the whole purpose of the ASL, to give space for that cyclist to do that wobble in clear space and in clear sight.

And you think that a driver wouldn't be able to see someone wobbling 15ft in front of their vehicle because there is another vehcile in front of them in a queue ?

 

[400bhp]

And you think that a driver wouldn't be able to see someone wobbling 15ft in front of their vehicle because there is another vehcile in front of them in a queue ?

To be fair Linford, as a cyclist in a queue you are often not in front but to one side. And we all know many drivers don't use their peripheral vision when driving.

I believe Adrian is right in respect of the main purpose of an ASL.

 

[Linford]

To be fair Linford, as a cyclist in a queue you are often not in front but to one side. And we all know many drivers don't use their peripheral vision when driving.

I believe Adrian is right in respect of the main purpose of an ASL.

If I ride on to the back of a queue, irerespective of whether I'm on a cycle or motorcycle, I maintina a primary position. Once clear of the junction if on a motorcyle, I'd maintain that, but on a cycle, I'd then move to a secondary one if the road was open ahead. I'd not sacrifice that positioning to filter to the front on a junction as it is just asking to be squeezed out if the lights change before I got into an ASL.
You are then into the parked cars on the side of the road on a cycle

 

[400bhp]

If I ride on to the back of a queue, irerespective of whether I'm on a cycle or motorcycle, I maintina a primary position. Once clear of the junction if on a motorcyle, I'd maintain that, but on a cycle, I'd then move to a secondary one if the road was open ahead. I'd not sacrifice that positioning to filter to the front on a junction as it is just asking to be squeezed out if the lights change before I got into an ASL.
You are then into the parked cars on the side of the road on a cycle

Many times I (and I guess you?) would filter part way down a queue of cars, in particular where that queue is relatively long. This is what I am talking about.

 

[Linford]

Many times I (and I guess you?) would filter part way down a queue of cars, in particular where that queue is relatively long. This is what I am talking about.

Sure I filter also, but I don't feel it is crucial I get to the very front of the queue.which is what the ASLs promote.

In any case, when doing this on the approach to a pedestrian crossing, it is illegal to overtake on the zigzags in case someone were walking across at the front. Why should a regular set of lighs be any different - it makes little sense to me to differentiate when the front of a queue can be a risky place for more people than the person jumping there.

What say you ?

 

[400bhp]

Sure I filter also, but I don't feel it is crucial I get to the very front of the queue.which is what the ASLs promote.

In any case, when doing this on the approach to a pedestrian crossing, it is illegal to overtake on the zigzags in case someone were walking across at the front. Why should a regular set of lighs be any different - it makes little sense to me to differentiate when the front of a queue can be a risky place for more people than the person jumping there.

What say you ?

Agree-I'm not advocating that the default position is to move to the front. IMO and has been alluded to, it often isn't the best place. But the fact of the matter remains that the ASL was probably introduced because of the reason Adrian gave.

 

[Linford]

Well, it does depend on how transparent the vehicle between them is, a panel van or blacked out X5 for instance being tricky to see past. I also note that you haven't addressed the issue of space.

Can you elaborate on this ?

 

[Lee_M]

If I ride on to the back of a queue, irerespective of whether I'm on a cycle or motorcycle, I maintina a primary position.

Like I did yesterday just to get the car behind try to force me off the road because he wanted to get round the right turn before me
and then do emergency stops in front to try and get me to fall off
(ive also had car drivers try that when Ive been on a notorbike too, hence why I used to use the ASL when on my mbike)

 

[Linford]

Whether or not you want to filter to the front is entirely up to you.
The comparing of traffic light junctions with zebra crossings is a bit of a diversion. Having said that though have a look at the zigzag legislation. I am given to understand that it specifies motorised vehicles.

And yet again, another inconsitency in the legislation. When cycling, I want to be treated as an equal, and I am happy to behave like one.

The legislators are happy to turn cyclists into a group with 'special needs' rather than proffer equal status with associated respect from other users.
Just because cyclists move more slowly doesn't make them any less intelligent than any other vehcile user on the road - cnuts !!!!!!

 

[Linford]

Like I did yesterday just to get the car behind try to force me off the road because he wanted to get round the right turn before me
and then do emergency stops in front to try and get me to fall off
(ive also had car drivers try that when Ive been on a notorbike too, hence why I used to use the ASL when on my mbike)

Road Legislation shouldn't be decided on the actions of someone who has no right to be there though.

 

[Lee_M]

Isn't that tautological? Road legislation is what means they have no right to be there

Tbh I'm amazed this thread has gone on so long based on the original post!

 

[Linford]

Isn't that tautological? Road legislation is what means they have no right to be there

Tbh I'm amazed this thread has gone on so long based on the original post!

I am referring to someone who cannot keep ther temper in check whilst in charge of a vehicle.
I don't think we havecovered this yet have we ?