Give way when turning left?

[mjr]

Same again the car on the inside technically shouldn't undertake the car in the middle lane, so should give way.

Go home, you're drunk! The middle lane hog should have pulled in when they finished overtaking, so there shouldn't be room on the left for anyone to overtake that side. If it didn't finish overtaking, it should drop back and pull in behind. This isn't farking America where people sit in their lanes for miles upon miles and pass either side.

Piss poor driving though if you find yourself in the middle lane after 3 warnings the junction you require to take is approaching..

And yet, that's often the standard of motoring in this country

 

[jonny jeez]

We don't need more legislation, we need better observance of legislation and, when that is not forthcoming, better enforcement.

I agree, observation of the law, acceptance

The problem with enforcement is, it a lottery. I know that I can drink and drive, or text and drive or speed or just not wear a seatbelt and the odds of being caught are really, really low.

Possibly less than 1 in a hundred.

To increase those odds the police need to massively increase enforcement over sustained periods at huge cost, for marginal gains.

However I choose not to do all those things because I know that they are dangerous, socially unacceptable, wrong and I just don’t want to do them. I have been educated and made my own mind up to do the right thing

 

[glasgowcyclist]

If the car in middle lane slows down then "technically" the car on the inside has performed an illegal undertake, purely due to the poor anticipation of the driver in the middle lane.

No it hasn't, 'technically' or otherwise.

So on a multi-lane carriageway with vehicles in all lanes, my speed and position in lane 1 is dictated by the slowest vehicle in any of the lanes to my right?

I think you're misunderstanding the HC.

That's the Highway Code for you, if taken literally..

Rule 268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.​

 

[mjr]

The problem with enforcement is, it a lottery. I know that I can drink and drive, or text and drive or speed or just not wear a seatbelt and the odds of being caught are really, really low.

Possibly less than 1 in a hundred.

To increase those odds the police need to massively increase enforcement over sustained periods at huge cost, for marginal gains.

Probably less than 1 in a thousand, I suspect.

It seems like two unwarranted assumptions that it would take huge cost or result in only marginal gains, but we probably differ on what costs are huge or what gains are marginal, or possibly that drink, distraction, speeding or seatbelts (labelled #fatal4) are common contributory factors in fatal collisions.

However I choose not to do all those things because I know that they are dangerous, socially unacceptable, wrong and I just don’t want to do them. I have been educated and made my own mind up to do the right thing

Great for you, but not everyone thinks like that and it seems that no amount of optional education will make them, so we need some way of spotting them and giving them more obvious encouragement (making it cost them money) or starting them on the path to revoking their driving licences before they kill.

We're facing an increase in cyclist-involved collisions and a higher proportion of serious or worse, most of which involve motorists and most of which are near junctions, so I support trying to make their responsibility to avoid collisions at junctions clearer.

 

[jonny jeez]

[QUOTE 4590356, member: 45"]There are two considerations - likelihood of being caught and potential punishment. Knowing that the chances of being caught might be low but consequences significant would put more people off.[/QUOTE]
In other words, keep the odds and raise the stake.

All true and I agree, the choice to do "the right thing" is an amalgamation of both factors.

 

[jonny jeez]

Probably less than 1 in a thousand, I suspect.

It seems like two unwarranted assumptions that it would take huge cost or result in only marginal gains, but we probably differ on what costs are huge or what gains are marginal, or possibly that drink, distraction, speeding or seatbelts (labelled #fatal4) are common contributory factors in fatal collisions.


Great for you, but not everyone thinks like that and it seems that no amount of optional education will make them, so we need some way of spotting them and giving them more obvious encouragement (making it cost them money) or starting them on the path to revoking their driving licences before they kill.

We're facing an increase in cyclist-involved collisions and a higher proportion of serious or worse, most of which involve motorists and most of which are near junctions, so I support trying to make their responsibility to avoid collisions at junctions clearer.

I think effective education starts way, way before people decide if they like it or not.

At preschool. And even younger with positive input on TV and media.

 

[keithmac]

No it hasn't, 'technically' or otherwise.

So on a multi-lane carriageway with vehicles in all lanes, my speed and position in lane 1 is dictated by the slowest vehicle in any of the lanes to my right?

I think you're misunderstanding the HC.

Rule 268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.​

Who mentioned congested roads?.

 

[mjr]

I think effective education starts way, way before people decide if they like it or not.

At preschool. And even younger with positive input on TV and media.

Maybe, but it's difficult to send the nobber motorists currently killing people back to preschool (although it would be an amusing extra requirement before getting their driving licence back), so we still need to do something about them too.

People are also trying to improve the odds of detection by getting things like Operation Snap in more areas.

 

[mjr]

Who mentioned congested roads?.

If it's not at least minimally congested, what the fark is anyone doing in lane 2?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Who mentioned congested roads?.

Congested or not, if the driver of a car in a lane to your right suddenly slows so that you end up ahead of him, you haven't done anything illegal.

If you still think your statement below is true, I'd be obliged if you would point me to what leads you to believe it..

If the car in middle lane slows down then "technically" the car on the inside has performed an illegal undertake

 

[jefmcg]

Seems to me that the same would apply to this new coinage "undertake",

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/undertake#undertake_Verb_200

It's not a new word just because you aren't familiar with it.

 

[mjr]

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/undertake#undertake_Verb_200

It's not a new word just because you aren't familiar with it.

I can't see a "date added" on that link?

Also, not being new doesn't stop the word being predominantly a tool used by incompetent motorists to shift blame for failing to check a lane to their left is clear before moving into or across it.

 

[gavgav]

Does this really mean (which is certainly how it appears in the video) that a cyclist has the right to undertake a vehicle who is turning left in front of them?! Utter nonsense

 

[keithmac]

I agree.

 

[gavgav]

[QUOTE 4592011, member: 45"]Have you read the thread?[/QUOTE]
Yes thanks. And I still believe that undertaking traffic, when they are turning left, is downright dangerous. I certainly won't be doing it on my bike or when driving my car.