Giving someone a bad reference

[Crankarm]

If they're working for you and you'd rather they weren't, why don't you give them a glowing reference?

These may help.


"Since my last report, this employee has reached rock bottom and now
shows signs of starting to dig."

"His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid
curiosity."

"I would not allow this employee to breed."

"This associate is really not so much of a has-been, but more of a
definitely won't be."

"Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat
in a trap."

"When she opens her mouth, it seems that this is only to change
whichever foot was previously in there."

"He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle."

"This young lady has delusions of adequacy."

"He sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to
achieve them."

"This employee should go far -- and the sooner he gets kicked out the
exit, the better."

ROFL!!!

Nice one Rich P.

Kirstie. I don't see the problem really. Maybe you are thinking to deeply about it for fear of come back to you if the new employer finds difficulties with their new recruit.

I would just state the dates of employment with your company, the role(s) and comment on the employee's attendence and sickness records.

If it would be a genuine surprise to a departing employee then it would probably be better not to write it as they could aruge since you did not raise it with them during their employment there is no basis for it.

All else is just opening a can of worms if the person is likely to contest it. Even if you have an employee you are genuinely sorry to see leave as they have been a good employee, you still have to be careful as there is none strange as folk and their impresssions of themselves.

The new employer is taking them on so presumably they will satisfy themselves through selection and interview that the employee is suitable. There will also be a probationary period which if the person doesn't measure up then the employment can be terminated.

I would suggest not mentioning behaviour which could have a medical pyschological basis would be unwise unless this has been looked into in your organisation by oocupational health or supported by disclosure by the employee themselves. I wouldn't even go there tbh.

May be the person just doesn't fit into your organisation and the one they are going to join my well mean they blossom and become a productive and valued member of staff. You don't really want to blight some one's career do you? Whilst I'm sure you're not, it could be seen as slightly vindictive or spiteful and thus writing a poor reference can leave you or your company open to being sued if the recipient loses the position they are applying for or is shown the reference by them. Ok if you want to defend it, but what does it really achieve?

If the employee stole from you, attacked another member of staff and it was proven - fine or perhaps you wouldn't give a reference at all.

You can write what ever you like but obviously it should be truthful and backed up by evidence.

I would just go with the basic reference. Many companies do this for all departing staff whether bad, mediocre or exceptional. Alternatively contact yoru HR dept. Difficult if you don't have one. You shouldn't be postig this if you ARE the HR dept ! Maybe seek the advice of a senior manager/boss. This might have some reflection on you though that you didn't manage this person out on capability grounds if they are as difficult as you claim. If the person doesn't leave due to the next organisation reading your reference then you are stuck with them and possibly further difficulties if you do try to get rid of them if their performance has not been raised with them and properly addressed and documented by you.

 

[Greedo]

If they're working for you and you'd rather they weren't, why don't you give them a glowing reference?

These may help.


"Since my last report, this employee has reached rock bottom and now
shows signs of starting to dig."

"His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid
curiosity."

"I would not allow this employee to breed."

"This associate is really not so much of a has-been, but more of a
definitely won't be."

"Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat
in a trap."

"When she opens her mouth, it seems that this is only to change
whichever foot was previously in there."

"He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle."

"This young lady has delusions of adequacy."

"He sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to
achieve them."

"This employee should go far -- and the sooner he gets kicked out the
exit, the better."

And my favourite!!

"This employee is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot!

 

[bauldbairn]

If they're working for you and you'd rather they weren't, why don't you give them a glowing reference?

These may help.


"Since my last report, this employee has reached rock bottom and now
shows signs of starting to dig."

"His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid
curiosity."

"I would not allow this employee to breed."

"This associate is really not so much of a has-been, but more of a
definitely won't be."

"Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat
in a trap."

"When she opens her mouth, it seems that this is only to change
whichever foot was previously in there."

"He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle."

"This young lady has delusions of adequacy."

"He sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to
achieve them."

"This employee should go far -- and the sooner he gets kicked out the
exit, the better."

- - we can alway's rely on you, rich p.

 

[mangaman]

May I suggest the following line;

Jo was employed by us for 3 years when he joined us they were fired with enthusiasm , he left the same way.

I think it depends a bit on the job. I work in a job with relatively few people in the country doing it. It's certain that I'll meet someone from the interview panel at some stage in the future.

Giving a reference that's false is not considered good.

Also presumably the person has asked you to be a referee. If that happens I will tell them what I'm going to say in the reference.

 

[Crankarm]

I think it depends a bit on the job. I work in a job with relatively few people in the country doing it. It's certain that I'll meet someone from the interview panel at some stage in the future.

Giving a reference that's false is not considered good.

Also presumably the person has asked you to be a referee. If that happens I will tell them what I'm going to say in the reference.

Are you giving the reference on behalf of the organisation/company or is it purely on a personal basis as their line manager? As MM has stated if the employee has asked you, you have presumably agreed and advised what you might write? Presumably if you weren't happy giving a reference as the case appears, you wouldn't have agreed or got out of it by advising that it is company/organisation policy only to give the briefest of basic references stating dates of employment, role and attendence record.

 

[Kirstie]

Ta for all the advice. I think part of the problem is that I am physically afraid of this person as they are huge, and very intimidating and unpredictable - often verbally aggressive - they are the kind of person that will twist anything against you. On reflection the best thing is just to decline a reference altogether.

 

[Greedo]

Ta for all the advice. I think part of the problem is that I am physically afraid of this person as they are huge, and very intimidating and unpredictable - often verbally aggressive - they are the kind of person that will twist anything against you. On reflection the best thing is just to decline a reference altogether.

He sounds like a total dick.

Give me a shout and I'll come and sort him out!

 

[Kirstie]

He sounds like a total dick.

Give me a shout and I'll come and sort him out!

More than my life's worth but I'll savour the thought for a few minutes...

 

[Greedo]

More than my life's worth but I'll savour the thought for a few minutes...

Hate folk that intimidate people in general never mind a woman. Just give me a shout if you change your mind

 

[Kirstie]

Hate folk that intimidate people in general never mind a woman. Just give me a shout if you change your mind

Thanks - it's one of those where I have to be really brave, stand up to him and remember that I'm in charge!

 

[jeltz]

I once had a telephone call requesting a reference for a person that I dismissed, during their probationary period, for launching a tirade of foul mouthed abuse at a potential client, words that would even make me blush!

When they phoned and asked I said "My god, I'm shocked that she put me down for a reference! Then said all I can do is to confirm that she worked for us about 2 months and that she took no sick days"

 

[Crankarm]

Ta for all the advice. I think part of the problem is that I am physically afraid of this person as they are huge, and very intimidating and unpredictable - often verbally aggressive - they are the kind of person that will twist anything against you. On reflection the best thing is just to decline a reference altogether.

Or just say that you don't acutally deal with references as they are handled by HR as a matter of policy . Hopefully he won't be around your work place for much longer. If an incident arose prior to his departure then you could call his future employer to inform them. Or if you geuninely feel intimidated speak to a senior manager and they may arrange for him not to work any notice period thus leaving with pretty much immediate effect. He will be pleased, you will be pleased and company should be relieved. Many companies don't allow employees to work notice once they have handed in their resignation. Once you've handed it in - clear your desk and get yourself amd possessions off the premises asap. If you dawdle then the friendly security chaps can be of help. I suppose it might be different if your contract stipulates a longer notice period where service has been over a longer period.

 

[bauldbairn]

I think part of the problem is that I am physically afraid of this person as they are huge, and very intimidating and unpredictable - often verbally aggressive - they are the kind of person that will twist anything against you. On reflection the best thing is just to decline a reference altogether.

If you're this persons "line manager" why aren't they on some kind of last warning - for repeatedly being verbally aggressive? To at least protect you and your colleagues.

I don't understand why you aren't selfish and do what's best for YOU?

Lie! - give a good ref...and get rid of the twat!

Imagine how unbearable your life will be if they(the twat) find out you in some way stopped their move to a new job.

 

[srw]

As a policy my old company did not give out references. The only paper work they would provide would detail length of employment and position held. Nothing else. I have provided this information for staff leaving the team, but always included my contact details in case a future employer would like to discuss things over the phone. Nothing in writing that could come back to you.

This is absolutely the best advice. Just say that you can confirm that X worked for you between dates A and B. It's absolutely factual, and so many companies have this policy now that no-one will bat an eyelid or read anything into it. Personally I wouldn't even put in my contact details, but would refer to our HR department. If a recruiting manager really wanted to get in touch with me they could find me.

Because like every other recruitment technique that exists it's supposed to indicate suitability for a particular job.

No it's not. It exists to confirm that the person being recruited is not lying about their past employment. By the time you get to the stage of getting references, the person you've recruited will have handed in their notice and burnt their boats. If you're recruiting just make sure that you have really good interview skills, a really good set of relevant questions based around the competencies you need, and preferably an HR professional you trust helping you.

 

[ASC1951]

By law Kirstie, you're not allowed to give a bad reference

Rubbish, I'm afraid. An employer is never obliged to give a reference, but if one is given it must simply be 'fair and reasonable'.

- as people can sue for defamation of character though it rarely happens.

Only if it is a) damaging and B) knowingly or carelessly untrue.


As my firm's Staff Partner I read numerous references, and gave them for ex-employees. (In the private sector no-one ever puts down their current employer as a referee.) It's a lot more difficult where it is a reference for someone who is still with you, although presumably he has already been offered the next job. Giving a glowing reference for someone unsatisfactory is unfair to the next employer, giving a bad reference will leave you stuck with the employee.

I'm with Crankarm on this - just give the basic reference, with job title, job summary and dates. Send the form back part completed (or ignore it altogether) but with a letter explaining that your organisation's policy is not to give subjective references; if you don't, it may be treated as a deliberately negative reference.