Have a go on this

[Riding in Circles]

As cab points out, the police continually focusing on cyclist misdomeanors is irrational and is not borne out of any statistics. Any road safety measures need to look at the big picture, which also includes cyclist law braking, although the effects of such are minor in comparison to the real problems.

However, I think publically complaining about focused measures (even though injust) doesn't do us any favours. Imagine how a car driver might view it. Police crack down on pavement cyclists, cyclists moan about it (the details don't matter as often other road users don't understand the details), and the car driver might just see that as 'bloody cyclists think they can do what they want, blah, blah, blah...'


So I think we should be pushing for better focused safety campaigns, whilst, at the same time, not complaining (at least in public, contacting the police is a better bet) about campaigns that focus specifically on cyclists.


Just my 2p worth.

I think part of the problem is that as cyclists we are not affected by passive policing that affects motorists, like speed cameras, traffic light cameras etc..., they have no way of easily identifying us, so when they have a crack down it is very visible as a police man handing out tickets, so 5 penalty notices are handed out a day to cyclists, seems fair enough to me, I don't break the law so I don't have anything to worry about.

Nationally there are 7,500 fixed penalty notices issued to motorists per day for offences caught on camera so there has to be some sort of balance.

 

[Cab]

Sorry Cab, but personally I don't see how many go unreported in any other accident makes any difference.

It doesn't vindicate a cyclist doing anything wrong, but it does mean that the relative risk posed to pedestrians by cycling is not higher than it otherwise appears from the low number of reported accidents; if the rate of underreporting is similar across the board, then relative risk is the same.

And while reckless pavement riding is, of course, wrong, and getting caught is simply fair enough and you'd have nowt to complain about, it also means that the relative risk posed by cyclists doing this does not justify specific targetting of cyclists, and that a better (and more productive) approach would be to target everyone misusing the pavement (including, say, motorists illegally driving there to park), and everyone running red lights, etc. When one group causes less harm breaking a law than other groups, by all means stop them, but don't target them, as to do so is irrational.

 

[Cab]

I think part of the problem is that as cyclists we are not affected by passive policing that affects motorists, like speed cameras, traffic light cameras etc..., they have no way of easily identifying us, so when they have a crack down it is very visible as a police man handing out tickets, so 5 penalty notices are handed out a day to cyclists, seems fair enough to me, I don't break the law so I don't have anything to worry about.

Nationally there are 7,500 fixed penalty notices issued to motorists per day for offences caught on camera so there has to be some sort of balance.

The balance being that, proportionally, cyclists pose a minute risk to others, so they're not targetted by such things as speed cameras. That is a balance.

 

[Riding in Circles]

So, lets get this right...

Your point is that cyclists are more dangerous because incidents are not reported. You have nothing to back that claim up other than that you think its true, and I'm wrong because I'm somehow in an 'imaginary state'.

Dude... I take my hat off to you. Even at my most stubborn and unreasonable, at my most evangelical, I couldn't manage to construct the argument you're putting forward.

You can keep pretending, thus far you have said little of worth, I'm not sure if you really are this naive or if you are just a troll.

If a cycle hits someone then it is usually not reported because there is little more than a bruise, if a car hits someone then it invariably means a more serious injury therefore it is reported, I back my "claim" up with real life experience, I've seen it time and time again, lycra clad Lance wannabees making the rest of us look bad with their idiotic behaviour, if you are expecting me to defend them just because they are cyclists then you really have lost the plot.

 

[swee'pea99]

Plod decide to 'crack down' on cyclists because a bunch of people in their focus group say that they don't like people riding on the pavement. Plod do this as a populist, cheap move that gives them a nice stastic to boast about...police forces are generally made up of well meaning, hard working individuals. But they're so driven to hit targets and get good headlines that they'll go for low hanging fruit

Way OT, but I thought it might amuse...

My sister volunteers at a local charity that takes in furniture etc, does it up, and sells it on for peanuts to peeps who need it. They do a fair few house clearances. One of the things that comes in, that they can't sell or otherwise use, is sharp kitchen knives - so for years they've got chucked in a box in the backroom. Visiting plod spots box, eyes light up, asks 'can we have those?' Slightly baffled but 'no skin off my nose' volunteers say 'sure'. Next thing you know, local paper reports local plod's record-breaking performance in the recent amnesty 'surrender your knives' drive...

 

[Riding in Circles]

Sounds about right, make a big show with minimum effort or effect.

 

[Cab]

You can keep pretending,

The classic 'repeat it often enough and its true' method, followed by...

thus far you have said little of worth, I'm not sure if you really are this naive or if you are just a troll.

...personal abuse and accusing someone who disagrees with you of being a troll, really a classic way of bolstering a point that has no argument behind it. Tell me, are you a natural or have you put years of study into cliched internet argument techniques?

If a cycle hits someone then it is usually not reported because there is little more than a bruise,

Or, in other words, there is usually no injury, so nothing to report. In fact many cycle/pedestrian clashes involve not even a bruise, and people don't report them because it isn't viewed as worthwhile. Or, in other words, such riding is unacceptable to those of us who are responsible riders, but if you keep the risk of injury in proportion then its not something really worthy of targetting police time on.

if a car hits someone then it invariably means a more serious injury therefore it is reported,

Wrong in every respect. If a car hits someone at slow speed, in a carpark or whatever, it does not invariably mean any injury or damage at all, but there is far greater potential for harm, and far more injuries are caused. Which is why it really, really matters, and why its worthy of more police time.

I back my "claim" up with real life experience, I've seen it time and time again,

Closing the 'argument by personal experience', by simply repeating the same point, making the same tired claim because if you keep saying it then it must be true...

lycra clad Lance wannabees making the rest of us look bad with their idiotic behaviour, if you are expecting me to defend them just because they are cyclists then you really have lost the plot.

And followed with a straw man! No one here has defended irresponsible riding, no one has asked you to, yet you now construct an argument based on the fact that I'm saying that!

Oh, this is priceless. As an example of cliched internet arguing, it should be framed

 

[Riding in Circles]

If anyone wants to see someone accusing another of being a troll because they are disagreed with they should have a look at your posts, you are accusing me of using your tactics. Well done.