Having a debate whilst cycling!?

[Davidsw8]

So, this has happened to me twice now, the latest being this morning:

1. A couple months ago I was sat on my bike, waiting for the lights to go right at Victoria Embankment in London. I have several cyclists next to me so I decide to let them race on while I bring up the rear. Off I go and one cyclist appears to my left trying to undertake me and another jumps off the pavement to my right and overtakes me so I muttered some expletive which Mr Under-taker takes exception to and begins a debate. I explained the problem and instead of addressing that, he counters with 'At least I wasn't cycling on the pavement like you were earlier'. Unable to think what he's referring to, I deny this and point at my helmet camera and explain my whole journey (including his error) has been recorded. He continues to argue this point while we're cycling at speed in heavy traffic so I shout a few expletives and ride ahead (he's on a Boris bike, I'm on a Brompton so no contest there). Later, I realised the pavement he was referring to was the the cycle path section of the pavement on the corner of Westminster Bridge next to St Thomas'. Doh!

2. This morning, I'm cycling down Horseferry Road to turn right into Smith Square, I wait for a car to pass before I turn but see a cyclist to my right cut the corner in front of the car to get ahead. Just a bit ahead, the cyclist then stops at the square and ushers 2 pedestrians across his path and mine. The pedestrians were the 'I'll cross and not bother to look' types so I called him dangerous. Coming out of the square to turn right on to Tufton St, he cuts another corner to get ahead again and asks me (while we're cycling) what I said.
Me: I think you're a dangerous cyclist
Him: Why?
Me: You shouldn't usher pedestrians across the road, you don't know what's behind you
Him: I was going slowly
Me: So? (and we cycle on)
We come to a stop next to Westminster Abbey and he continues:
Him: And another thing [I roll my eyes] if the pedestrians are crossing, you have to stop...
Me: I'm not having a conversation with you while I'm in the road.
Him: ...it's in the highway code. Come on, they're pedestrians, you have to let them cross.
Me: [Unable to resist the bait] Even if they don't look? It's also in the highway code that they have to look before crossing.
Him: No, it isn't
Me: Actually, it is.

We then part our ways.

Both times, it's been posh-ly accented middle aged men unable to admit they're in the wrong and to compound their mistakes, they want a full on discussion whilst actually cycling. I know, I shouldn't say anything and if they start, I need to ignore it but ay-karrumba it's difficult!

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

I try not to get into debate,although I did yesterday when a cyclist was hanging close almost level to the right of my rear wheel and then overtook me closely eventually.I thought it was dangerous,don't mind hm drafting but not hanging on my right like that as I may have need to move right.Anyway I don't think it's a good idea to argue while cycling in traffic.

 

[fossyant]

Peds at a crossing - I don't see the issue ?

Not worth saying anything at all. Even if they have no lights and are dressed like a ninja - that type on certain parts of my commute are likely drug dealers ! Leave them to it, let them get knocked off.

 

[fossyant]

Anyway, what's wrong with saying hello ?

Passed a guy on an MTB this morning, his filtering was a bit erratic, but he caught up at lights The conversation went like, oh it's a bit chilly, I've got to get myself one of those (pointing at my road bike) me talking about he could get slick road tyres for his MTB, and I'd done that in the past, then wished each other a good morning.

I didn't feel it necessary to comment on his erratic filtering.

 

[Davidsw8]

Peds at a crossing - I don't see the issue ?

Not worth saying anything at all. Even if they have no lights and are dressed like a ninja - that type on certain parts of my commute are likely drug dealers ! Leave them to it, let them get knocked off.

Hi Fossy

It wasn't even a crossing, it was the edge of the square. If they're on the road already, then fine, but they weren't and the cyclist couldn't see me coming up behind him when he ushered them across my path.

If cyclists let peds think they'll always stop just because they step out into their path then there's going to be accidents. Peds are even walking in front of moving cars etc. now expecting them to stop and let them cross. A 5 year old was killed at Elephant & Castle yesterday, I don't know the details but the amount of people running across that busy junction in front of buses, lorries, cars etc. is shocking and I'm only surprised there aren't more fatalities.

 

[Davidsw8]

Anyway, what's wrong with saying hello ?

Passed a guy on an MTB this morning, his filtering was a bit erratic, but he caught up at lights The conversation went like, oh it's a bit chilly, I've got to get myself one of those (pointing at my road bike) me talking about he could get slick road tyres for his MTB, and I'd done that in the past, then wished each other a good morning.

I didn't feel it necessary to comment on his erratic filtering.

I agree, it's sometimes nice to have a brief chat if you're stopped at lights

 

[jonny jeez]

Both incidents started when you made a comment. Its not your job to be the cycle police/gaurdian.

If you pull people up on something expect to have a row.

I appreciate many on here will disagree with this and I do respect the active role those riders take in raising awareness. But they don't complain about the results of their involvement.

 

[jonny jeez]

If cyclists let peds think they'll always stop just because they step out into their path then there's going to be accidents. Peds are even walking in front of moving cars etc. now expecting them to stop and let them cross. A 5 year old was killed at Elephant & Castle yesterday, I don't know the details but the amount of people running across that busy junction in front of buses, lorries, cars etc. is shocking and I'm only surprised there aren't more fatalities.

this is all true but I promise you, driving/riding at them, to teach them a lesson will not help. We cyclist expect larger vehicles to be aware of our vulnerability. likewise it is our duty to take care of those more vulnerable than us.

Ped's

its frustrating, but its the law and its the human thing to do.

 

[Davidsw8]

this is all true but I promise you, driving/riding at them, to teach them a lesson will not help. We cyclist expect larger vehicles to be aware of our vulnerability. likewise it is our duty to take care of those more vulnerable than us.

Ped's

its frustrating, but its the law and its the human thing to do.

Hi Jonny

I totally agree on both points, I do need to keep my comments to myself, someone won't change their behaviour just cos I've said something.

However, I should stress that I would never drive AT a ped, I just won't let them cross just because they're put their foot on the road without looking. Generally, I will cycle past at a safe enough distance for them and myself.

I don't know whether it's just me or because I'm on a Brompton but I think I'm just as vulnerable as a ped, maybe more so, if they cause me to fall off, I could go under the wheels of traffic.

Maybe a jay-walking law in the UK would help?

 

[smokeysmoo]

FWIW I believe our very own Fnaar is partial to a mass debate while cycling, just saying

 

[BentMikey]

Maybe a jay-walking law in the UK would help?

No, jay walking laws are the domain of ignorant anti-living cities and countries. The UK has it right with pedestrians being able to use the road as they see fit.

 

[Davidsw8]

No, jay walking laws are the domain of ignorant anti-living cities and countries. The UK has it right with pedestrians being able to use the road as they see fit.

Even if they put your (and their own) safety at risk?

Unfortunately, (and I'm not normally this 'right-wing') some people need the law to tell them how to behave, common sense isn't that common.

 

[Davidsw8]

Even if they put your (and their own) safety at risk?

Unfortunately, (and I'm not normally this 'right-wing') some people need the law to tell them how to behave, common sense isn't that common.

Crikey, I sounded like Margaret Thatcher then!

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

Even if they put your (and their own) safety at risk?

Unfortunately, (and I'm not normally this 'right-wing') some people need the law to tell them how to behave, common sense isn't that common.

Perhaps they do,I've had a few accidents with peds but I try to base my cycling on being professional and seeing situations arise.Have the odd near miss,it happens.

People don't always see common sense,have you seen how they drive?

Texting/Using phone while driving=madness.

 

[BentMikey]

If you're having trouble with pedestrians, perhaps going a little slower, riding further out from the pavement, and in general anticipating a little more would help?