BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Unless you drive your car with the windows wound down, you'd be a hypocrite. 
Headphones and Cycling! Is it safe?
- Thread starter RedStork
- Start date
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BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
4F, still not interested in borrowing one of my cameras? It's a genuine offer, and I think would add value to the debate. I promise to be positive about any resulting footage, and it's not like it would cost you money or take more than a few minutes of your time.
The post from Totallyfixed was right on the money and it staggers belief that anyone who thinks they are a competant cyclists could disagree with it.
Hi Mikey, there is little point to be honest. You have never changed your mind from an argument yet and irrespective of whatever I videod you would not change your mind. I think you should take Lee up on his offer
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
I'm kinda sad you won't do this. It comes across a little as though you're unwilling to demonstrate your looking skills. Perhaps some of the abuse handed out on here on other peoples' videos, including by you, makes you unwilling to walk the walk yourself? No action from yourself only strengthens my feeling that you're compensating for looking by hearing.
As for not changing my mind on arguments, that's plain wrong. Origamist changed my mind on carradice clamps on carbon seatposts, I used to be a pro-helmet religeonista and a RLJer, and there are many other examples. I've no idea what Lee said, he's on ignore.
As for not changing my mind on arguments, that's plain wrong. Origamist changed my mind on carradice clamps on carbon seatposts, I used to be a pro-helmet religeonista and a RLJer, and there are many other examples. I've no idea what Lee said, he's on ignore.
JoysOfSight
Active Member
[QUOTE 554596"]Not sure why you put the "so" in, because it doesn't follow at all.[/quote]
Um.. yes, it does.
In fact, I'd have thought there is a reasonable argument that because motorists have blind spots and we do not, the "key sense" of hearing would be even more important for them than it is for us, because while we can easily and routinely see all around, they can't (this applies especially to panel vans and trucks where they can't shoulder check through a rear window).
Ever wondered if a left-turning HGV might have stopped before crushing a cyclist or pedestrian if only the driver could hear the shouts of passers-by? Should having the window down and radio off, not then be a requirement in urban areas (bearing in mind that about 3/4 of London deaths are right there to be prevented).
There is no justification for obstructing your hearing in a four-wheeled vehicle which can't equally be applied to a two-wheeled vehicle, however much you wish it. Since we completely accept the blithe disregard of this "key sense" by 99% of road users, I find it hillarious that anyone would seriously argue that it is essential for the 1% who are faster (on average, in traffic) and have incomparably better all-round visibility.
All I can say is, your experience of riding with clubs and testers is very different to mine. (And at over 200 miles a week for three years, I would flatter myself that I now have a tiny little bit of first-hand experience).
I'd go as far as to say that some of the worst bike riding I see comes from the faster rider who apparently thinks that having put time in on the turbo somehow gives them invulnerability. Certainly their "key sense" of hearing doesn't seem to prevent a ready number from pulling out in front of me around parked cars, though if I took your post at face value, those are the riders that should least demand me covering the brake!
Perhaps a good use of Mickey's camera would be to do a sort of inverse test of the overtaking one. Instead of having one cyclist fitted with a camera, park a car on a main cycling street with the camera set up to catch whether riders do a visual check before pulling out around it (with a good quality camera it would also be possible to tell which riders had headphones in).
Simple as pie.
Um.. yes, it does.
In fact, I'd have thought there is a reasonable argument that because motorists have blind spots and we do not, the "key sense" of hearing would be even more important for them than it is for us, because while we can easily and routinely see all around, they can't (this applies especially to panel vans and trucks where they can't shoulder check through a rear window).
Ever wondered if a left-turning HGV might have stopped before crushing a cyclist or pedestrian if only the driver could hear the shouts of passers-by? Should having the window down and radio off, not then be a requirement in urban areas (bearing in mind that about 3/4 of London deaths are right there to be prevented).
There is no justification for obstructing your hearing in a four-wheeled vehicle which can't equally be applied to a two-wheeled vehicle, however much you wish it. Since we completely accept the blithe disregard of this "key sense" by 99% of road users, I find it hillarious that anyone would seriously argue that it is essential for the 1% who are faster (on average, in traffic) and have incomparably better all-round visibility.
All I can say is, your experience of riding with clubs and testers is very different to mine. (And at over 200 miles a week for three years, I would flatter myself that I now have a tiny little bit of first-hand experience).
I'd go as far as to say that some of the worst bike riding I see comes from the faster rider who apparently thinks that having put time in on the turbo somehow gives them invulnerability. Certainly their "key sense" of hearing doesn't seem to prevent a ready number from pulling out in front of me around parked cars, though if I took your post at face value, those are the riders that should least demand me covering the brake!
Perhaps a good use of Mickey's camera would be to do a sort of inverse test of the overtaking one. Instead of having one cyclist fitted with a camera, park a car on a main cycling street with the camera set up to catch whether riders do a visual check before pulling out around it (with a good quality camera it would also be possible to tell which riders had headphones in).
Simple as pie.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
marzjennings
Legendary Member
- Location
- Houston, Texas, USA
[QUOTE 554606"]
Let's get back to the question, and my response. Headphones impair hearing, and I'd rather maximise mine while on my bike. Whether or not cars are noisy is irrelevant.
[/quote]
Headphones do impair hearing, can't argue with that. Being able to maximise then to hear the world around as you ride is cool. Thinking that this flood of maximised audible information somehow makes you a much safer rider is a bogus supposition.
Let's get back to the question, and my response. Headphones impair hearing, and I'd rather maximise mine while on my bike. Whether or not cars are noisy is irrelevant.
[/quote]
Headphones do impair hearing, can't argue with that. Being able to maximise then to hear the world around as you ride is cool. Thinking that this flood of maximised audible information somehow makes you a much safer rider is a bogus supposition.
JoysOfSight
Active Member
+1.
Here's another one. The technology exists to provide riders with 'phones that don't obscure the noises around you, but magnify them.
Does this make you even safer than a normal rider, and if not, why?
Here's another one. The technology exists to provide riders with 'phones that don't obscure the noises around you, but magnify them.
Does this make you even safer than a normal rider, and if not, why?
jonny jeez
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chislehurst, Kent, UK
People are comparing driving a car with the windows up and stereo on, as being the same as riding with phones in.
...well, if my car was as light as a pushbike, offered no impact protection, was only capable of going 20mph and never keeping up with the flow of traffic (so staying in their line of sight), and was constantly at threat from other inconsiderate car drivers ...I sure as hell wouldn’t roll the windows up and put the stereo on when I drove it.
its not a good comparison.
I ride a motorcycle and by law have to wear a helmet. Yet i find helmets restrict my vision and also my ability to hear traffic and so, feel oddly "safer" on the pushbike than on the motorbike.
is this because I can hear better , perhaps.
...well, if my car was as light as a pushbike, offered no impact protection, was only capable of going 20mph and never keeping up with the flow of traffic (so staying in their line of sight), and was constantly at threat from other inconsiderate car drivers ...I sure as hell wouldn’t roll the windows up and put the stereo on when I drove it.
its not a good comparison.
I ride a motorcycle and by law have to wear a helmet. Yet i find helmets restrict my vision and also my ability to hear traffic and so, feel oddly "safer" on the pushbike than on the motorbike.
is this because I can hear better , perhaps.
As a casual cyclist I find myself on mainly lone bike rides and I use headphones. I have a Bluetooth Handsfree to enable me to use my music player on my phone, it also means if I get a call I can pull over and answer without fumbling through layers of clothing. I have no doubt their will be a myriad of cries about not taking a phone whilst cycling but I find it a useful tool. The handsfree also allows me to mute the music and adjust the volume so I can adapt it to the current traffic conditions. I don't find much more of an impairment to my hearing than I would from the wind whistling in them, that is more to do with the damage from Rugby rather than speed by the way :-). I believe it is a personal choice, if I was in a group cycling then common courtesy would mean not having the headphones on, the same as when I jog with friends.
BTW, the comment about the technology is apt, Noise Reducing Headphones can minimize background drone allowing you to better hear other sounds, I currently use them when traveling by train and plane. I haven't used them for cycling as they aren't sport specific so would probably die with the sweat or rain but the sport versions should cope.
BTW, the comment about the technology is apt, Noise Reducing Headphones can minimize background drone allowing you to better hear other sounds, I currently use them when traveling by train and plane. I haven't used them for cycling as they aren't sport specific so would probably die with the sweat or rain but the sport versions should cope.
JoysOfSight
Active Member
30,000 KSI each year in traffic collisions, of which only a very few involve cyclists but the overwhelming majority involve at least one driver who, whether to blame for the incident or not, might have been alerted by a shout that they couldn't hear.
Considering whether hearing obstruction is a good thing needs to look at both sides of the equation, not simply the safety of the driver / rider. Does a reversing bus driver not need to look in his mirrors because he won't be hurt if he crushes someone? Clearly not.
You'll observe that this is not an argument for obstructing cyclists' hearing, if anything the reverse - in other words, it's simply an argument that road users should be treated consistently.
I have no problem with people who think any hearing obstruction (driving or cycling) is dangerous, that's quite a sustainable position (although not one I agree with).
A point which I made several pages ago when asked about the differences between motorbikes and pushiron.
With reference to the original question, it is, IMO, safe to ride with headphones but, IMO, not as safe as it is to ride without.
Mikey, I am certainly not concerned about any abuse that I may get from any video as without doubt there are some parts of my commute that would draw discussion. Currently I am off my bike at the moment due to an old football injury which is playing up (cruciate ligament) and I may take you up on your offer later in the year.
My commute is approx 1 hour (30 mins rural and 30 mins urban) How much recording time can your camera capture ?
totallyfixed
Veteran
- Location
- The only county without a McDonalds
Just a thought, is there any correlation between listening with headphones whilst riding in urban vs rural areas, ie might it be that urban riders are more likely to be wearing headphones?
Still can't get my head around not wanting to experience in full all the sights and sounds that are unique to riding a bike, on my rides I regularly see Buzzards, Red Kites, Peregrine Falcons and between March and September, Ospreys. I am often alerted to them by their calls, can't imagine cutting off one of my senses voluntarily.
Thanks Tony, knew you would think the same, was I supposed to be impressed by someone who rode 200 miles per week? Now if he had said 400.....
Still can't get my head around not wanting to experience in full all the sights and sounds that are unique to riding a bike, on my rides I regularly see Buzzards, Red Kites, Peregrine Falcons and between March and September, Ospreys. I am often alerted to them by their calls, can't imagine cutting off one of my senses voluntarily.
Thanks Tony, knew you would think the same, was I supposed to be impressed by someone who rode 200 miles per week? Now if he had said 400.....
