Heston & The Fat Duck

[Fnaar]

What's wrong with accurate descriptions of things: cracked is not ground and crushed is not mashed

It's OK with 'mushy peas', I guess...

 

[PK99]

I think crushed potatoes is ok, as that's what they are. On the other hand:

"Pan fried". Yeah, cos we thought the steak was chucked in a deep fat fryer.
"Hen's egg". We can safely assume it's from a hen unless you tell us otherwise.
"Creme anglaise". Unless you're French, it's custard. Ditto jus/ gravy.

Pan frying is a form of frying characterized by the use of minimal cooking oil or fat (compared to shallow frying or deep frying); typically using just enough oil to lubricate the pan

Crème anglaise (French for "English cream") is a light pouring custard used as a dessert cream or sauce

'Jus' means the natural juices given off by the food

Gravies are often thickened with a starch, starting with a roux made of wheat flour, cornstarch/cornflour, or arrowroot.

What is wrong with accurate descriptions of things?

 

[User482]

Pan frying is a form of frying characterized by the use of minimal cooking oil or fat (compared to shallow frying or deep frying); typically using just enough oil to lubricate the pan

Crème anglaise (French for "English cream") is a light pouring custard used as a dessert cream or sauce

'Jus' means the natural juices given off by the food

Gravies are often thickened with a starch, starting with a roux made of wheatflour, cornstarch/cornflour, or arrowroot.

What is wrong with accurate descriptions of things?

Because they are superfluous, innaccurate or wrong:

1. It's usually perfectly obvious when an item is pan fried, as opposed to other methods.
2. Creme anglaise, as you note yourself, is custard. The French call it creme anglaise only because they have no word for custard.
3. Jus, in my experience, is always incorrectly used to describe a gravy or sauce, rather than meat juices.
4. Gravy doesn't have to be thickened, and could also be described as a sauce.

 

[PK99]

Because they are superfluous, innaccurate or wrong:

1. It's usually perfectly obvious when an item is pan fried, as opposed to other methods.
2. Creme anglaise, as you note yourself, is custard. The French call it creme anglaise only because they have no word for custard.
3. Jus, in my experience, is always incorrectly used to describe a gravy or sauce, rather than meat juices.
4. Gravy doesn't have to be thickened, and could also be described as a sauce.

On the menu: Deep fried, shallow fried or Pan fried mean different things

creme angalise is a pouring custard and would normally contain vanilla seeds,
Custard may or may not be and egg custard and would not normally contain vanilla seeds and may or may not be of a poruing consitancy and may or amy not be an egg custard
Creme angalis would have to appear as "Pouring egg custard with vanilla"

Because some eating places mis-describe what they serve does not invalidate the correct description elsewhere
Gravy and Jus ARE different things.

Serve up a watery gravy and you are likely to get complaints from the punter!

 

[User482]

On the menu: Deep fried, shallow fried or Pan fried mean different things

creme angalise is a pouring custard and would normally contain vanilla seeds,
Custard may or may not be and egg custard and would not normally contain vanilla seeds and may or may not be of a poruing consitancy and may or amy not be an egg custard
Creme angalis would have to appear as "Pouring egg custard with vanilla"

Because some eating places mis-describe what they serve does not invalidate the correct description elsewhere
Gravy and Jus ARE different things.

Serve up a watery gravy and you are likely to get complaints from the punter!

1. Just as we can assume an egg is from a hen unless the menu tells us otherwise, we can also make the assumption about pan frying. It's superfluous.
2. Creme anglaise and custard are identical. There is no need to describe it as anything else, unless you have deviated from a standard custard recipe.
3. I can't recall ever eating a meal with purely the juices from the cooking process. What is served is always a gravy or a sauce, so that's what it should be called.

 

[Archie_tect]

Meanwhile....

 

[PK99]

1. Just as we can assume an egg is from a hen unless the menu tells us otherwise, we can also make the assumption about pan frying. It's superfluous.
2. Creme anglaise and custard are identical. There is no need to describe it as anything else, unless you have deviated from a standard custard recipe.
3. I can't recall ever eating a meal with purely the juices from the cooking process. What is served is always a gravy or a sauce, so that's what it should be called.

Deep frying = submerge food item in fat = fat does the cooking
shallow fry = partially submerge food item in fat = fat does the cooking
pan fry = lubricate pan with oil to facilitate heat transfer = heat conduction from the pan does the cooking

For example:
Deep fried fish fillet
shallow fried fish fillet
pan-fried fish fillet

are very different things

Creme anglais and custard are most certainly not the same thing
Custard may = Birds out of a tin and has never seen an egg!

Jus = meat juices with additions and will often be thickened by reduction but not with the addition of starch which serves to mask the flavours

Jus (properly prepared) = from the meat cooked and served ie the pan juices which may or may not be modified by additions.
Sauce = from prepared stocks
Gravy may or may not contain meat juices

 

[dellzeqq]

I'm asking now, because I'm a bit puzzled by some of this.....

It seems to me that cooks like Fergus Henderson, Jamie Oliver and Hugh Fearnleywotnot try to present what comes out of the ground or out of the sea in a straightforward way (I'm talking about the telly Jamie Oliver, not the restauranteur). There's art, there's a bit of subterfuge, but the general message seems to be - 'get your ingredients right and you won't go wrong'.

And that, to my way of thinking, is a virtuous thing. It's respectful of nature's provenance. We eat a nice meal contrived from good ingredients and we think that food should be healthful and unadulterated. Without wishing to push this too far, you could say that, to a degree, outfits like MaccyDs have taken this on board.

Heston Blumenthal seems to me to be the complete opposite of that. His cooking is like a conjuring trick. Nothing is really what it purports to be. It's clever, and skillful, but I can't admire his purpose.

 

[User482]

Deep frying = submerge food item in fat = fat does the cooking
shallow fry = partially submerge food item in fat = fat does the cooking
pan fry = lubricate pan with oil to facilitate heat transfer = heat conduction from the pan does the cooking

For example:
Deep fried fish fillet
shallow fried fish fillet
pan-fried fish fillet

are very different things

Creme anglais and custard are most certainly not the same thing
Custard may = Birds out of a tin and has never seen an egg!

Jus = meat juices with additions and will often be thickened by reduction but not with the addition of starch which serves to mask the flavours

Jus (properly prepared) = from the meat cooked and served ie the pan juices which may or may not be modified by additions.
Sauce = from prepared stocks
Gravy may or may not contain meat juices

1. I'm aware of the various frying methods. You'll note that chips are never described as "deep fried" because it's obvious that this is the cooking method. Similarly, in the vast majority of cases, it is obvious when food is pan fried. The description is superfluous.

2. Creme anglais and custard are the same. My Mrs Beeton (both), Michel Roux (creme anglaise) and Good Housekeeping (custard) recipes are identical. Birds powder bears as little relation to custard as it does to creme anglais.

3. Jus without additions is jus. Jus with additions is a sauce or gravy.

 

[srw]

2. Creme anglaise and custard are identical. There is no need to describe it as anything else, unless you have deviated from a standard custard recipe.

However much you might wish it otherwise, when it's a sauce, custard is made by mixing milk with commercially provided flavoured cornflour. If I saw "custard" on a menu, I'd not assume creme anglaise - which is an accurate cheffy word for eggs and cream/milk.

 

[srw]

2. Creme anglais and custard are the same. My Mrs Beeton (both), Michel Roux (creme anglaise) and Good Housekeeping (custard) recipes are identical. Birds powder bears as little relation to custard as it does to creme anglais.

It's not Mrs Beeton, Michel Roux or Good Housekeeping which decides how the English language is used int he UK. It's the great British public, by custom.

But that's a different topic.

 

[Rezillo]

I think crushed potatoes is ok, as that's what they are.

Yep, spuds that they couldn't be bothered to mash properly.

 

[srw]

Heston Blumenthal seems to me to be the complete opposite of that. His cooking is like a conjuring trick. Nothing is really what it purports to be. It's clever, and skillful, but I can't admire his purpose.

As I've posted before, he's a showman. Many fancy restaurant meals these days are less about sustenance (which Henderson is very good at) than about display and challenge. I was in the room last night when the Masterchef Professional final was on. Some of it was very good in description, but many of the results looked disappointingly meagre.

Oliver's background is Italian peasant food (the River Cafe, IIRC). Fearnley-Whittingstall is an amateur cook, not a professional chef.

 

[User169]

'get your ingredients right and you won't go wrong'.

'ear 'ear

 

[User482]

However much you might wish it otherwise, when it's a sauce, custard is made by mixing milk with commercially provided flavoured cornflour. If I saw "custard" on a menu, I'd not assume creme anglaise - which is an accurate cheffy word for eggs and cream/milk.

So if you see "gravy" on a menu, do you assume it's made with bisto?