Hey short ladies

[brokenbetty]

I just came across a really interesting article on the issues of road/touring bike geometry for the short of arse, in particular where manufacturers typically make compromises to allow standardisation of components like cranks and wheels

http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/petitest.html

It's from 1994 but I was looking for my first road bike earlier this year, trying 47cm frames, and the problems don't seem to have changed. I assumed the problems I found on test rides were just unfamiliarity with a road position but now I wonder how much is just from trying to use components designed for a group that starts off 9" taller than me and goes up from there.

This in particular describes exactly a problem I found

A 77° seat angle brings the saddle about 3cm closer to the handlebars compared to 74°. This would be all very well on a small racing bike, since it brings the rider's weight further forward of the pedals in a manner which helps the rider press harder upon them. But our Alice does not want to pedal harder - after all she is supposed to be touring - and finds to her discomfort that relaxing her pedalling effort now requires a greater proportion of her weight to be supported by hands and arms.

​

The article notes that small women often sit back on the saddle to shift their weight back - I certainly do this, as well as have my saddle adjusted as far back as I can in the first place.

and

Small people have small hands and many women can only reach standard issue brake levers with their fingertips. Modern drop handlebar levers are generally closer to the bar than old designs, but this is still not enough for some who must search for special short-reach levers. ATB levers often have reach adjustment screws which stop the lever springing back so far when released and an ingenious person can always find some way of similarly reducing the motion of any other design of lever. A wedge or screw etc can be glued rivetted or screwed to the top of the lever so as to come up against the lever hood at a point when the lever is still a little way from its intended return position - or you can simply bend it a bit. It's obvious, however, that if you reduce the amount of available lever motion then the blocks don't move as far either - so small handed people are forced to keep their brakes adjusted closer to the rim.

​

Is anyone else reading the above with a strong sense of recognition?

Liz (5' 1")

 

[GrasB]

Sounds kinda like the problems I had when setting my partners bike up for her. A few things to remember...
650C & 26" wheels are out there both of these can be used to give a more relaxed frame geometry though you're most likely looking at a custom built frame.
Instead of bending brake levers you can often get handlebars bent & contoured to give you a smaller reach with the same lever travel.
You can change the stem to give a more relaxed riding position & also if you can get the steerer uncut that can also help.
160 & 165mm cranks are a god send.

EDIT: see bold for correction

 

[brokenbetty]

Sounds kinda like the problems I had when setting my partners bike up for her. A few things to remember...
650C & 26" wheels are out there both of these can be used to give a more relaxed frame geometry though you're most likely looking at a custom built frame.
Instead of bending brake levers you can often get handlebars bent & contoured to give you a smaller reach with the same lever travel.
You can change the stem to give a more relaxed riding position & also if you can get the stem uncut that can also help.
160 & 165mm cranks are a god send.

Sadly, I can't get a custom bike on Evan's cycle 2 work scheme

But I recently got a 70s touring bike off ebay which has 26" x 1-1/4" wheels. It was just supposed to be a temporary ride, but maybe rather than looking for a new road bike I should upgrade that one (ironically, if I do that first upgrade would be swapping out the wheels for 26" x 1-3/8" alloys so I can stop the thing ).

I can see me using the cycle scheme to buy the cheapest bike Evans do plus £800 of accessories and upgrades

I am definitely going to check out shorter cranks as well.

 

[purplepolly]

Is anyone else reading the above with a strong sense of recognition?

I've got small hands and the brakes are at the limit of being usable. The front brake was too far when I got the bike because it was on the left of the gripshift but I moved it to the right. This makes it slightly more inconvenient to change gear but easier to brake.

And since I've been cycling more I've realised the cranks are too long so they need to be changed.

But.., I got a bike with a syntace bar clamp that means I can easily adjust the height and reach of the bars with an allen key.

(5'4")

 

[Titanium]

Hi. This is Mark writing. Hope I'm not gate-crashing here, because I'll also mention a Longstaff touring bike that I'm selling soon.
My height is approx 5'5" with 28" inside leg. That's just about OK for fitting on the smaller sizes of 700c road tourers or 26" wheel road going bikes.
My tip for anyone hoping to find a good small touring bike is to take a look at some of the nice quality MTB style bikes in the smallest sizes, as they often have almost everything needed for a good road tourer; eyelets for racks and mudguards etc. And with a bit of changing things here and there, you can make it more of a road bike, such as with drop-bars/STi's and that sort of thing. Or even just change the bars to that versatile multiposition/butterfly type, and that makes a pretty good all-rounder.
And, if anyone is interested, I'm soon selling an extra-small Longstaff 531 26" wheel tourer. I bought it for myself but it's actually quite a bit too small. I'm guessing it's best for 5'0" to 5'4", it's standover height is tiny at about 26inches.
Frame size looks to be approx 42cm area; tricky to say due to the top tube that is angled down to join the seat tube below the seat-stays intersection.
I'm still changing things around, and haven't decided whether to change it to multiposition bars, other details, as yet. In case you were curious about it you could email:- penarth1(at)hotmail(dot)com
Anyway, just wanted to say I'm quite familiar with always having to find those slightly rare smaller sizes in the bike world. All the best. Mark.

 

[purplepolly]

My height is approx 5'5" with 28" inside leg.

A good illustration of another problem - I'm 5'4" with 30" inside leg, this doesn't leave much length in the upper body.

 

[Titanium]

Hi Purplepolly. Yes, I know from reading various magazines and forums that long legs + short torso has it's problems. So do you use a bike with a short stem and/or a short top tube; is that what works best?
And sometimes small bikes with short top tubes can suffer from toe-clip overlap, and often frames that use smaller wheels tend to make sense - and so MTB style bicycles can be very advantageous.
The Cannondale T1000 tourer (700c) I owned for a while had a very nice ride, although there was quite a bit of toe-clip overlap; ended up selling that. Toe-clip overlap isn't that bad once you get used to it - on the other hand, it is peace of mind not having it.
A 10-year old CroMo steel 15" Giant mountainbike off ebay can make a superb small road-going bike with a bit of tweaking. Giant frames have loads of braze-ons... really handy.

 

[Cathryn]

The whole drop handlebar thing def strikes a chord...took me ages to get used to them and I had to get these shim things from specialized to make it a bit easier!!!

(5"1)

 

[summerdays]

A good illustration of another problem - I'm 5'4" with 30" inside leg, this doesn't leave much length in the upper body.

I'm taller than you but still the same sort of proportions: 5'5 and 31.5" inside leg. I've not gone down the touring bike yet but I'm tempted for n+1 in the future.

 

[XmisterIS]

Slightly off-topic I know ... but I laughed watching my short (but very cute) female friend trying to get her leg over my bike.

(she is 5'0", I'm 6'0").

 

[Mycroft]

to post or not post?

unsure cos im a man, so i've been told.
I'm 5' 8" when the moons are in alignment, but 29" inside leg and play guitar with small hands.

I REALLY do NOT understand why its so difficult to get smaller frame sizes. i looked all over the internet and found that when i settled on a tourer i liked the look of, the price of and went to the trouble of checking the makers web site, and IT said they did a smaller frame. i couldnt actually find anyone SELLING the dammed things.

the LBS is not great, BUT they did have a 17.5 " frame and when i sat on it, it just felt like coming home, perfect.

so the hunt was on, but i ended up with a 19" frame, bought further from home, because it was the only small (ha!) frame WITH rack holes front and back. i've just about got used to the stretch out to the bars, but if i was brave enough i might get a shorter stem, i assume it would help (i like the sit up and beg position, takes the weight off the elbows, shoulders) don't know what size the cranks are, but they seem to be too big for the bike, one has to be careful going round corners while peddling!


26" wheel all the way, because they are much stronger.

assume IF you could find a suitable bike with 24" wheels it would have a suitable sized frame, although that would limit you to MTB and such. someone posted a link to an interesting folder (animal?) with 24" wheels.

I'd rather be on a comfortable bike that FIT even if it was a MTB and not a road bike (or visa versa)

 

[Danny]

Specialized do a range of frames designed for women which you should be able to buy through Evans.

 

[ttcycle]

Hi Betty

Still having sizing problems?

I'd agree with Danny -the specialized women's bikes seems to ride quite well but the problem is that the specs for the 2010 bikes are not as good and the prices have shot up ridiculously and are completely unjustified. Some manufacturers don't really make much consideration for women specific geometry- they simply make it a girly colour and smaller....

I'm riding a man's bike at the moment - the only difficulites I have with the set up is the shifters are quite sizeable and hard to reach for smaller hands - getting used to it though but was very specific about researching the sizing and geometry before I purchased.

Does it have to be evans that you buy through? There are a couple of places youcould go for a custom build

 

[Baggy]

I'd agree with Danny -the specialized women's bikes seems to ride quite well but the problem is that the specs for the 2010 bikes are not as good and the prices have shot up ridiculously and are completely unjustified.

It's not just Specialized, tried a Giant a couple of weeks ago and the 2010 spec isn't as good as the one I tired, but the price is going up.

I'm 5'4" with a 30" inside leg, and both of my bikes are men's frames. It's taken a bit of fiddling round to get both set up right. One big difference was made by using women's handlebars - I use 40cm randonneur bars which curve backwards on the tops a bit and position the levers closer to the bar so you can reach more easily.

I also swapped the stem for a shorter one on my second bike - it arrived with a 100mm stem and now has 80mm.

Have just ordered a 49cm 2009 Kona Haole for a test ride, but it has 172.5mm cranks, so can guarantee it's going to have toeclip overlap. Bet the bars are too wide as well. The 2010 model has 165mm cranks so at least it looks as if they've thought a bit more about sizing.

 

[Brains]

I seem to remember Thorn did a very small frame, as I was looking to get one for my wife (5'0"). Not cheap,but it will be perfectly sized