Profpointy
Legendary Member
Now that's a "straw man" !
ie posting up something indefensible and implying I'm supporting it
HGV/Cyclist visibility
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Now that's a "straw man" !
ie posting up something indefensible and implying I'm supporting it
glenn forger
Guest
Where do you think I implied you support anything? I asked you a question, your refusal to answer is interesting.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
And a transit with capacity of a ton or weighs a ton and a half empty (or whatever exact figures are)
glenn forger
Guest
For the fifth time, the alternative to HGVs is not limited to transits, stop banging on as if no other alternatives exist.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
I don't doubt your figures - nor disagree with them. What am i supposed to be defending?
HLaB
Marie Attoinette Fan
Apologies if it has already been discussed but I believe there is a design of Cab which improves visibility but certain truck manufacturers are opposing it :-(
glenn forger
Guest
Your statement that HGV drivers are more considerate. According to Operation Safeway three quarters of them break the law. Offences included being over laden, faulty brakes and no insurance, as well as the usual fiddled tachometer.
Like I said I don't doubt your experience, it's just that it is at odds with the facts.
Like I said I don't doubt your experience, it's just that it is at odds with the facts.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
Well ok you could have 100 light vans, or 200 italian style scooter-vans, or 500 pizza delivery boys on mopeds, or 1000 people with wicker baskets - the principle remains. All the above have a place - granted - but one way or another stuff needs delivering - even if we reduce inessentials
glenn forger
Guest
There's a dirty great river in London, chronically under used. The subsidies for the freight industry ensure alternatives, like rail, are ignored. Freight movement by HGVs is massively subsidised so it is cheaper for the freight industry to continue killing vulnerable road users.
glenn forger
Guest
There is a solution and now that TfL has reinstated the Freight Unit I urge everyone to lobby for action. Truck movements in London cannot easily be banned BUT they can be managed. The work at St Pancras (Francis Crick Institute) had around 50 trucks making 150 trips/day for at least 2 months to move the spoil dug from the site on a 63 mile round trip out to Pitsea, when less than 1 Km away is a railway siding used to deliver aggregates, and equally close-by is a 2 track abandoned railway line, which could have taken away the spoil on just 2 trains per day. Even a short journey to the river or canal can make a difference and if the facilities are in place the developers will see a substantial cost reduction from putting typically to 1000T (50 trucks) on rail or 2000T (100 trucks) on the river with a single 'driver'.
Major projects progressing include London Bridge Station - rail connected - but apparently not able to provide any spare rail sidings, or a temporary concrete batching plant over the tracks, to cut down on truck movements. Given the location and volume of material coming out it might even have made sense to run a conveyor belt out to load barges in the Pool of London (where the 11,000T HMS Belfast indicates the capacity for freight on water).
To the South the demolition of the Heygate Estate and site clearence could see 200 of more truck movements put on to the Elephant and Castle roundabouts for several months, would a strategic connection to the railway directly beside the site be possible for this and future development in the area?
http://ibikelondon.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/advice-for-us-all-cycling-safely-with.html
As long as it is cheaper for the freight industry to allow these behemoths into a crowded urban realm the deaths and horrible injuries will continue.
Major projects progressing include London Bridge Station - rail connected - but apparently not able to provide any spare rail sidings, or a temporary concrete batching plant over the tracks, to cut down on truck movements. Given the location and volume of material coming out it might even have made sense to run a conveyor belt out to load barges in the Pool of London (where the 11,000T HMS Belfast indicates the capacity for freight on water).
To the South the demolition of the Heygate Estate and site clearence could see 200 of more truck movements put on to the Elephant and Castle roundabouts for several months, would a strategic connection to the railway directly beside the site be possible for this and future development in the area?
http://ibikelondon.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/advice-for-us-all-cycling-safely-with.html
As long as it is cheaper for the freight industry to allow these behemoths into a crowded urban realm the deaths and horrible injuries will continue.
I'm pleased to see that the link you give has sound advice to cyclists re HGV's
"The advice is this; if you are approaching a set of traffic lights and there are already lorries waiting at the lights ahead of you (remember, they may be about to turn even though they're not indicating) then stay back. Do not go down the side of the vehicle under any circumstances. Hold back in traffic and wait for the truck to move on and complete its turn when the lights turn green - remember that larger or articulated lorries may have to pull a long way out to the left before turning right, and vice versa. Be patient, and give the truck lots of room.
A typical lorry blind spot - look familiar?
If you're at the traffic lights waiting and a truck pulls up behind you, try to get ahead of it as much as you can. There is a large blind spot in front of the driver's cab which you may not be aware you are in. Try to get at least 5 metres ahead of the lorry, and don't be afraid to turn and give the driver eye contact, or even a little wave to make sure they note your position. Better still, consider dismounting your bike and walking across the junction if you are turning left or right. Contentious though it is, if it is clear and safe for you to jump the red light without threatening any pedestrians you should consider doing so. (And before anyone gets on their high horse I've been given this very advice on several occasions by road traffic investigators; the Police who have to come and take deceased cyclists off of the road)
Always remember; if the truck is ahead, stay back.
If the truck is behind, get ahead.
In a nutshell, try to put as much clear space between yourself and any large vehicles at junctions as you safely can."
Profpointy
Legendary Member
Some good ideas there. Although I'm speculating,I'd hazard a guess the the regulations and dare I say.excessive safety on the railways makes ad-hoc solutions like you suggest almost impossible to implement. I'd almost go as far to suggest that safety improvements on the railways have a tendency to increase cost / reduce convenience - thus increasing road traffic - and hence killing more people.
A bit OT but when there was a hoo-hah to introduce some multi billion auto stop train control after a rail accident, it was calculate that a multi-billion engineering project would typically kill x workers - which was.more than would be saved by it.
Still food for thought
But that's comparing apples with HGVs-carrying-oranges.
A transit with a capacity of 1.5 tonnes has a capacity of 1.5T. A 44T lorry that weighs 15T has a capacity of 44-15 = 29 tonnes, so that "37 transits" figure starts to look more like "20 transits", at which time the finding in http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2458-10-699.pdf that freight vehicles are involved in ~24x as many cyclist deaths as cars starts to look rather more relevant, don't you think?