HGV vs cyclist

[dondare]

I'm newly signed up on this forum, but I too drive HGVs, and so this thread kind of leapt off the screen!

I agree with you that, if the mirrors are properly set, then, contrary to popular opinion, lorries have no blind spot

But have you ever tried telling another lorry driver that he has his mirrors set up wrongly? No chance!

If anybody in the cycling fraternity could provide me with the opportunity, I would be able to demonstrate that it is possible for any HGV driver to remain stationary, parallel to the kerb, and follow the progress of a pedestrian or cyclist, from a long way down the street, all the way down the length of the trailer, and underneath the nearside cab window until he or she emerges in front of the HGV and clear of danger. At no time is it unavoidable that the pedestrian or cyclist would disappear from the driver's view

It works in exactly the same way if the vehicle is moving - it's just harder to demonstrate!

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Cyclists can filter up the inside or overtake outside or come from any direction and if there were enough mirrors to see them all then the driver would not have enough eyes to look in them all and still watch the road ahead. But there are other accidents that cannot be explained by blind spots. I've been overtaken by cars that then turn left, by vans that then turn left and by lorries that then turn left and the lorries are the biggest danger by far.
On Saturday I went up the Cambridge on the A1M. I'd normally go up on the M11 but it was closed because a lorry had smashed into the back of a coach on the hard shoulder. How did the lorry driver not see a bloody coach on a bloody motorway? The driver was one of the people who died so I guess we'll never know that, but if lorry drivers can't see a coach in front of them how are they ever going to see a bicycle in a town with a street plan that wasn't even designed for motor traffic?
Looking through news reports it seems that lorry/coach collisions on motorways are actually more common than lorry/bike incidents in towns. For some reason it attracts less media attention and there are no initiatives to make motorways safer for coach parties.

 

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Cyclists can filter up the inside or overtake outside or come from any direction and if their were enough mirrors to see them all then the driver would not have enough eyes to look in them all and still watch the road ahead. But there are other accidents that cannot be explained by blind spots. I've been overtaken by cars that then turn left, by vans that then turn left and by lorries that then turn left and the lorries are the biggest danger by far.
On Saturday I went up the Cambridge on the A1M. I'd normally go up on the M11 but it was closed because a lorry had smashed into the back of a coach on the hard shoulder. How did the lorry driver not see a bloody coach on a bloody motorway? The driver was one of the people who died so I guess we'll never know that, but if lorry drivers can't see a coach in front of them how are they ever going to see a bicycle in a town with a street plan that wasn't even designed for motor traffic?
Looking through news reports it seems that lorry/coach collisions on motorways are actually more common than lorry/bike incidents in towns. For some reason it attracts less media attention and there are no initiatives to make motorways safer for coach parties.

HGVs are provided with two mirrors on the nearside door and a third mirror above the door facing down. If these mirrors are set correctly, then there are no blind spots in the driver's vision. The offside is covered by a single mirror and the flexible neck of the driver

I have not seen pictures of the M11 crash, but motorway collisions involving large vehicles usually occur around the bottom of slip roads, or when one or more vehicle is involved in a lane change. Because most HGV drivers have their mirrors set incorrectly, they cannot always see the vehicle which is close along their nearside. That is exactly the same problem which leads to so many HGV/cyclist collisions

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[subaqua]

HGVs are provided with two mirrors on the nearside door and a third mirror above the door facing down. If these mirrors are set correctly, then there are no blind spots in the driver's vision. The offside is covered by a single mirror and the flexible neck of the driver

I have not seen pictures of the M11 crash, but motorway collisions involving large vehicles usually occur around the bottom of slip roads, or when one or more vehicle is involved in a lane change. Because most HGV drivers have their mirrors set incorrectly, they cannot always see the vehicle which is close along their nearside. That is exactly the same problem which leads to so many HGV/cyclist collisions

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not wishing to speculate, but if the lorry hit the back of a stationary coach on the HARD SHOULDER I would think its a driver who had fell asleep at the wheel .

It happened to my dad, many years ago, who was hit from behind in his flatbed articulated. the driver behind coughed that he must have fallen asleep.

 

[Matthames]

not wishing to speculate, but if the lorry hit the back of a stationary coach on the HARD SHOULDER I would think its a driver who had fell asleep at the wheel .

Or playing around with a mobile or any other number of electronic distraction that may be in the cab.

 

[gaz]

HGVs are provided with two mirrors on the nearside door and a third mirror above the door facing down. If these mirrors are set correctly, then there are no blind spots in the driver's vision. The offside is covered by a single mirror and the flexible neck of the driver

New HGV's may have these fitted when they are made but how about the ones already on the road? Not all HGV's have these mirrors.

 

[malkie]

More ads like this on tv please.

Isn`t this the point .

I don`t recall the last time I saw any driver / cyclist education on the TV .

I have been educated about riding in primary/secondary by coming on here but when I first commuted by bike years ago , I hadn`t a clue .
Many cyclists won`t be in clubs or use internet forums but they`ll have a TV.

How hard would it be to run a campaign ...."DON`T RIDE UP THE INSIDE OF TRUCKS"

Clearly it can`t be very important.

Malkie.

 

[suecsi]

Not sure about elsewhere, but here in London there were several billboards with a HGV 40 foot truck and a row of cyclists to the left hand side, warning about blind spots. They were very effective, but seem to have disappeared.

It was This One

 

[summerdays]

I think that one is effective (if not completely true), at making a point but its a TFL one that I have only seen because of CC.

Actually looking at it ... and wanting a lorry drivers perspective ... once the lorry is in that position so that the cab is pointing backwards at the trailer part - does the blind spot become that big or are the mirrors curved enough to see into that area?

 

[BentMikey]

Not sure about elsewhere, but here in London there were several billboards with a HGV 40 foot truck and a row of cyclists to the left hand side, warning about blind spots. They were very effective, but seem to have disappeared.

It was This One

The better version of that has a blue cycle super highway painted along the left, which all the cyclists are sitting safely in.

 

[suecsi]

I guess because I live and commute wholly within the TFL boundaries, I probably saw lots of these. But I agree with BentMikey - they need updating for the blue lanes ......

Thankfully it looks like my job here in the leafy suburbs will continue for another 18 months or so. I was anticipating having to commute in Central London which I was dreading, unless I managed to get lucky and find a job that I could get away with commuting through a park for part of the way ....

 

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Actually looking at it ... and wanting a lorry drivers perspective ... once the lorry is in that position so that the cab is pointing backwards at the trailer part - does the blind spot become that big or are the mirrors curved enough to see into that area?

I repeat from my earlier posts - it is easy to demonstrate, but impossible to describe, that if a truck's mirrors are correctly positioned, then blind spots do not exist

BB

 

[gaz]

I repeat from my earlier posts - it is easy to demonstrate, but impossible to describe, that if a truck's mirrors are correctly positioned, then blind spots do not exist

BB

Not much use if the driver doesn't look in the mirrors.

 

[BentMikey]

What about the rear of the vehicle? I realise that's out of the way for the most part, except when the lorry is reversing.

 

[subaqua]

Not much use if the driver doesn't look in the mirrors.

and to be looking in all mirrors at once is fairly impossible. A quick sweep takes 5-6 seconds, which is enough for someone to slip into the dead/th zone as the lorry moves.

I get tired of trying to tell cyclists not to go down the side of lorries when i am riding into/home from work. one day their luck is going to run out and they become another sad statistic.

 

[subaqua]

What about the rear of the vehicle? I realise that's out of the way for the most part, except when the lorry is reversing.

I tyry to stay in sight of the mirror working on the assumption that if i can see the driver in the mirror then he should be able to see me. same as when I am in a car