Hollowtech bearings

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Location
Loch side.
I have often thought that I should send some of my old bearings to THESE GUYS as they offer to fit bigger, better bearings. I remember now, that is why I have kept the old ones.

EDIT: with hyperlink this time :rolleyes:

I have been using them for years and have probably purchased 1 000 Enduro BB bearings in about 5 years. Nowadays the Shimano product is so cheap that it isn't worthwhile doing the procedure. Further, it only works in some Shimano BBs, the one pictured on the second page of this thread won't work. It needs a thin aluminium ridge around (i.e. al larger bearing, effectively a modified 6805).

They are not better though and certainly not bigger. They still have to fit in the same space as the old ones so they can't be bigger.

The design of the system is flawed. The hollow crank spindle flexes on the left hand side (that side being the only one that transmits torque down the axle) and pushes the bearing out of alignment, causing a crash inside the grooves with the balls.

The seal on the Enduro unit is also flawed. It is only a lip seal and a single seal cannot separate two liquids.
 

I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
the bearings have so far lasted around 8,000 miles.

Of course, none of this helps you Crackle, if you insist on soaking your bike in corrosive salty sea water then you only have yourself to blame!
Damn you Crackle!
My bike was making a random clicking noise on the commute yesterday and I didn't really pay it much attention. However, it was still doing it today, and a little bit worse so I did pay attention this time and it was happening only when pedalling. Once home I popped the chain off and spun the cranks, sure enough a rumbling could be heard through the frame and there is detectable play, mainly at the left, non-driveside bearing. :sad:

I reckon spraying the garden hose around to remove the sand after the Llandudno ride probably did for it, I knew I shouldn't have cleaned it! :whistle:
 
OP
OP
C

Crackle

..
I still haven't touched mine. Well; I took it apart, decided not to fiddle with the seals, stuck it back together, rode it until it stopped grunching and it's still going. Occasionally it stiffens a little and after a few miles, frees up. It still feels smooth, no play, so I'm not entirely sure what's going on or whether to finally replace it. I think while I'm still doing short or local rides I'll leave it but if my plan for a longer adventure matures I may replace it before I go: Stupid design.
 

ozboz

Guru
Location
Richmond ,Surrey
Mmm , I fitted HT on my mountain bike , got me thinking now ,,may whip it off while im waiting for wheel build , just t be on safe side , prob a good time to service idrive to ,
 
Location
London
Still p'ed off about not being advised of this much discussed weakness when I bought my Hewitt. Not being too technical I never gave the BB much thought when speccing the bike. I can see the bike being switched to square taper in the future (or if that is problematical for Shimano of course discontinued the square taper chainset that would be my preferred choice) Octalink. The bike was bought for extended loaded touring - what the F do I care about supposedly small increases in stiffness or small decreases in weight?
 

ozboz

Guru
Location
Richmond ,Surrey
image.jpeg
I put HT on my MTB about three years ago SLX tripple , after reading posts on here , I decided to strip the whole drive chain off , this bike of mine has been through a lot of everything , submerged and ridden many times in the Thames washouts around Richmond ,mud up to my ear 'oles , the photo shows the Idrive components , as you can see , well used and full of gunk , The bearings in the HT appear to be as good as the day I put in on , seals in tact , no friction noise or play , so all in all good kit in my book !
 
Last edited:

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
I'm also baffled by the hiding Hollowtech is taking on here.

My Cannondale MTB hasn't had enough use to form an opinion, but my mate Chris the mechanic reckons Hollowtech is decent kit.

He's rarely wrong on such matters, but it does appear user experiences of Hollowtech vary a lot.
 
Location
Loch side.
View attachment 122936 I put HT on my MTB about three years ago SLX tripple , after reading posts on here , I decided to strip the whole drive chain off , this bike of mine has been through a lot of everything , submerged and ridden many times in the Thames washouts around Richmond , the photo shows the Idrive components , as you can see , well used and full of gunk , The bearings in the HT appear to be as good as the day I put in on , seals in tact , no friction noise or play , so all in all good kit in my book !

See that black gunk on the adapter cup threads? That's aluminium rouge in what used to be clear green Shimano grease, a sure sign that the adapter cup is moving and fretting inside it's mount inside that iDrive adapter. That's the source of that irritating click click as you pedal which most iDrive owners cannot hear but which annoys everyone else in the squad.

Now, when you put the whole lot back, leave the chain off for a minute and spin the crank whilst putting your ear against one of the major tubes on the bike. That will act as a stethoscope and tell you exactly what state the bearings are in. A good bearing is silent, a bad bearing rumbles and a BB30 bearing roars. When you spin that crank with your ear against the tube, make sure your teeth are not in the pedal's way.
 

ozboz

Guru
Location
Richmond ,Surrey
Dont know about shimano grease , I fitted the Idrive the same time as the HT , I used castrol ,but will try what you said ,i do not know which part you are identifying ,the bearings run on steel shims , I remember having problems fitting them as new , but any advice is well taken , Cheers , ive put them in soak to de gunk , when they are clean ill put another pic up , maybe a bit clearer incase there is a prob , this a '97 bike , parts , esp bearings are not easy come by
 
Location
Loch side.
Dont know about shimano grease , I fitted the Idrive the same time as the HT , I used castrol ,but will try what you said ,i do not know which part you are identifying ,the bearings run on steel shims , I remember having problems fitting them as new , but any advice is well taken , Cheers , ive put them in soak to de gunk , when they are clean ill put another pic up , maybe a bit clearer incase there is a prob , this a '97 bike , parts , esp bearings are not easy come by

I'm referring to the BB itself, which comprises the two bearing assemblies (called adapter cups by Shimano) and a plastic sleeve connecting left to right. The very bottom item in your photo. If you look at the screw thread on both cups, you'll notice it is black. That black is aluminium particles fretted off the cups and bike and suspended in the grease that was on the thread, supplied by Shimano on new cups. This grease is a beautiful translucent green before fitting. After a few hundred miles it turns black, even if the bike stays dry. This indicates that the cups move inside the BB shell. That's also the source of the familiar click click 9with every pedal stroke) that emanates for hollowech BBs.

However, as I said with my tongue firmly in my cheek, iDrive owners cannot hear that click because all those fancy iDrive parts have a cacophony of their own. Yours almost certainly would not have been silent.
 

ozboz

Guru
Location
Richmond ,Surrey
The black on the threads , how would these things move ? If they were loose surely it would be noticed whilst riding ? The idrive shell is made of some form of alloy , could the aluminium be have some reaction with the metal of the idrive , the only noise I got from the idrive , which was s click happened when the dogbone worked itself loose , anyway , to be fair , there shouldnt be anything on the threads bar the grease that was applied at the time of fitting , i may try some PTFE tape when I refit them , give em a while and then check them out
 
Location
Loch side.
The black on the threads , how would these things move ? If they were loose surely it would be noticed whilst riding ? The idrive shell is made of some form of alloy , could the aluminium be have some reaction with the metal of the idrive , the only noise I got from the idrive , which was s click happened when the dogbone worked itself loose , anyway , to be fair , there shouldnt be anything on the threads bar the grease that was applied at the time of fitting , i may try some PTFE tape when I refit them , give em a while and then check them out
They move through two mechanisms:
1) Precession. Because the crank is a very uneven power source it places large unbalanced loads on the BB shell. Imagine for a minute that the BB shell (that's the bicycle part of the BB) is made of rubber. You can then visualize how the shell ovalises in the direction where the crank points as the crank pulls the centre of the circle around 360 degrees. Although the shell is not made from rubber, metal is nevertheless elastic and that actually happens, sans the exaggeration I forced to demonstrate the point. This is the force that causes the one side to spontaneously unscrew if it wasn't a reverse or left hand thread.
2) Dynamic joint. A dynamic joint is something that can move because it is literally not welded. Take a bolt and nut and play with it. Notice how the nut can move against the bolt even though it is screwed halfway in. Now, if you back that nut up against the workpiece, it appears as if the nut cannot wobble on its axis anymore but that's an illusion. If the workpiece moves, the nut wobbles with it. A screw of the type you see on your BB is exactly the same. Although it backs up against a flange, it can never be perfectly stable. With pedaling, it moves. And when it moves under pressure such as when you torque it up, the two parts fret against each other and metal particles break loose. That's the black rouge you see in your grease.

The external BB is poorly designed to counter these two forces described above. Because it comprises two shallow cups on the same axle (crank), they can move independently and don't support each other. An internal BB does. Further, think of a car wheelnut with its tapered flange. That design is perfectly stable and doesn't move. We know that because you don't need reverse threads on the one side. Had he BB cups been designed with tapered shoulders we would not have had the problem. Further, if the bearings inside were like car wheel bearings, angular contact bearings, the bearings would have lasted longer.

Hollowtech is not perfect but it is OK in screw-in versions. With press fit it is a disaster. Screw-ins can be removed and "serviced" (i.e. thread cleaned and regreased). Pressfit can't. Also, Shimano has started to sell single cups. This means you can buy left ones separately and replace only those when they fail. If you buy in bulk for a workshop, you'll know that the fail ratio is about three to one. Our workshop used to buy then separately (many won't because there's more money to be made by denying that they are available separately) and our ratio was three (left) to one (right) without fail. That doesn't mean everyone's personal ration will be three to one, that was the average over a large sample.

PTFE tape silences it for a while but that eventually wears off. The best treatment is regular removal and cleaning and refitting with copper compound instead of grease.
 
Last edited:

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Hollowtech is not perfect but it is OK in screw-in versions. With press fit it is a disaster. Screw-ins can be removed and "serviced" (i.e. thread cleaned and regreased).

That's more or less what my mate Chris the mechanic said.

A replacement Hollowtech BB for my Cannondale is about a tenner.

That's no good if the bracket won't do the job, but provided it gives a reasonable amount of service, the occasional £10 replacement is neither here nor there - I would view it in the same light as a chain.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-deo...|pcrid|71714705102|pkw||pmt||prd|5360701407uk
 
Top Bottom