How a Brompton is made

[tinywheels]

A 20 incher that rides as lithe and lively as better made rivals thet cost half as much wou,d get my vote. I was really excited by the G line and quite disappointed to actually ride it. It really was a half arsed effort and way off target.

Maybe Brompton should visit a well known chap north of the border. He has produced some remarkable Bromptons. If a guy working alone in a shed can produce such quality bikes what's holding Brompton back?
Ok I was joking about the shed. However his upgrades are superb.

 

[brommieinkorea]

Many small problems they could have fixed, and they designed a bike that doesn't have the bikes original appeal of a super small and easily transported fold.
If they'd fixed the issues, and made the bike untouchable as folders go, would it sell enough to be worth the design and retooling?
Before anyone asks, here's what's wrong:
Slipping seat post.
Rim wrecker brakes.
Rear pivot that could be a cartridge type and last a long time.
Quill type stem thing.
Schwalbe rough arse riding tyres, now that there's an option.

 

[FrankCrank]

Watched the vid this morning.
I think the presenter overdosed on enthusiasm pills, but fair play to the staff for being patient and explaining stuff at great length.
Being a hobbyist welder myself, appreciate the time spent in the welding department, or brazing to be pedantic.
The quality does shine through in these factory walkabouts, attention to detail is to be admired.
As to the perennial gripes about the product, you'd think that after 50 years they'd have them sorted, such a shame really.

 

[FrankCrank]

A decent folding bike is hard to come by here in Canada, where commuting to work on a bike is almost frowned upon except in a few odd cities. My old folder was worn out and, being a piece of junk when I bought, it didn’t seem worth fixing once worn so I picked up a Brompton for those times when a folding bike is a big help. ( like dropping the car off for service )

A Brompton around here is an expensive toy. Even in areas where the infrastructure allows easy integration of a bike into rail or bus travel it’s hard to justify the high cost of these bikes, especially where cheaper alternatives are available. The quality is decent, not stellar, and you do have some quirks to live with.

If Brompton doesn’t want to fade away they will have to assure they are better in every way than the other stuff that’s out there. You can’t continue to sit on your butt, pointing at a “classic” design and a made in England sticker and expect to live forever. If that were the case I’d have a Norton in the garage and a Jag in the drive.

they seem to be an efficient operation, better than their old system, so clean up the quirks, and get the price in line. If you’ve knocked all of this time out of the manufacture of the bike, saved all that labour… why does it still cost so much. Could some of those savings have been passed on to the customer or it someone just lining their pocket.

Any news on the Helix (24" wheeled titanium folder), which I believe is made in Canada?
It was in the news a lot a few years back, but don't hear anything now.

 

[Electric_Andy]

I think the presenter overdosed on enthusiasm pills

I subscribe to Alec Steele on YT so have seen most of his videos. Yes he's incredibly enthusiastic but he has a genuine love for blacksmithing and all things engineering. He's also visited a company who make hand saws which was very interesting. It's very nice to see a "youngster" who's so interested in the older ways of making things

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

Any news on the Helix (24" wheeled titanium folder), which I believe is made in Canada?
It was in the news a lot a few years back, but don't hear anything now.

They are still around. A good way to spend 50% more than a Brommy and have something not nearly as small when folded.

 

[Fastpedaller]

I'm venting, as usual. I am frustrated that they have failed to read the room as far as whats wanted.
You know, whats needed as does anyone who rides one on a regular basis. How about the hub gearing for starters? Thats surely ripe for an update. Improve the multitude of little things that virtually all owners change within weeks of purchase. I could go on, but we all are aware of its shortcomings.
Hard times are coming and only the fleet of foot will survive. I suspect the majority of them are bought on cycle to work schemes. There's a limit to what folks will pay for one, I'd suggest we're there.
So shape up Brompton or go the way of the dinosaurs.

Have you read Will Butler-Adam's book? I'm someone who's changed a 2-speed Brompton into a 6-speed by adding an extra sprocket and double chainrings with a front derailleur. Why did I do that you may ask? Well, I didn't choose the 2-speed gearing, so I changed it to suit me. If you read WBA's book it is quite insightful. It becomes clear that building a bike like mine (as a company that wants to produce long-lasting reliable product) may not be a straightforward as it seems. A Brompton with a front derailleur, for instance is great for me, because I added it, and know how to use (or not use) it. Anyone unfamiliar with its finer points would likely return it repeatedly, complaining that it doesn't work properly. As for the lightweight 'bling' which some call improvements, well, it's been said many times....... Choices are lightweight, low cost and durability...... choose any two.

 

[Fastpedaller]

Many 'issues' with Bromptons may be the result of owners/users not reading the manual (eg I'll just oil this part and then touch the seatpin with my oily hand followed by "I'll tighten this nut on the seatpin QR 'cos it doesn't hold) ) and general lack of knowledge on how to maintain bikes. You only have to see some of the questions owners ask on Brompton forums to realise they haven't 'grown up with bikes'. I know someone who almost consigned a bike (not a Brompton) to the scrapheap within 5 years, examples of it's 'maintenance' ..... Fitting brake levers with an incorrect pull ratio to the cantilever brakes, then declaring cantilever brakes were rubbish (why he changed from the original levers is a mystery). Continuing to ride the bike with a knackered bearing in the rear wheel - why didn't he feel the tyre continually rubbing the left chainstay?
We don't know how some of the Bromptons have similarly been abused by equally competent owners- the fact they've lasted many years is testament to their good build design and quality!

 

[Drago]

Cantilever brakes? How quaint!

 

[brommieinkorea]

Yep, got to agree the build quality is pretty good, or they'd all snap in half like an MIT V8 (or other such clone). But rim brakes were a substitute for a gloved hand, also it was harder to reach the spoon from the seat of a safety bicycle than an ordinary- rim brakes shouldn't have progressed past 1900. That slick piece of plastic crap they call a sleeve, once again there are solutions that work better, will last longer that date back to 1898. The square taper bottom bracket is stupid durable and something very similar would make an excellent rear pivot. The long flexy stem riser and quill stem insanity is what drives Drago nuts, it could be beefed up and fixed on bikes with long reach and be so much better for big and tall people (the Bickerton had a long flexible handlebar all the way to the stem-clamp that flexed as if on an airdyne exerciser, - big improvement over that !)

So I am baffled that someone at Brompton hasn't put some of these improvements in, got a new patent and rolled on...

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

I would like someone at Brompton to explain why the G line cost well over double what a C line costs. Same design, larger parts. Add a few hundred bucks for more material and disc brakes but beyond that it’s just a huge gouge.

I worked as an engineer in manufacturing my entire career… including costing products and production equipment. Yes they would have to tool up for the large frame etcetera but I can’t see how they can justify a roughly %110 price increase over a C line. ( based on Canadian prices )

Want to sell more bike? STOP GOUGING.

I am happy with my C line but it’s not that good a bike and I can see a few questionable design features on it, once its trendy boutique bike aura fades a bit they’ll be in trouble.

 

[Drago]

Yep, got to agree the build quality is pretty good, or they'd all snap in half like an MIT V8 (or other such clone). But rim brakes were a substitute for a gloved hand, also it was harder to reach the spoon from the seat of a safety bicycle than an ordinary- rim brakes shouldn't have progressed past 1900. That slick piece of plastic crap they call a sleeve, once again there are solutions that work better, will last longer that date back to 1898. The square taper bottom bracket is stupid durable and something very similar would make an excellent rear pivot. The long flexy stem riser and quill stem insanity is what drives Drago nuts, it could be beefed up and fixed on bikes with long reach and be so much better for big and tall people (the Bickerton had a long flexible handlebar all the way to the stem-clamp that flexed as if on an airdyne exerciser, - big improvement over that !)

So I am baffled that someone at Brompton hasn't put some of these improvements in, got a new patent and rolled on...

Thats not confined to the clones.

The G Spot is a stiffer platform and handles my God like form well enough, so theyre part way there. If they could sort out the uninspiring ride it would be a winner.

I see they now offer the G spot with a road type tyre, which may be a tacit admission thet they missed the target and are making a cheap attempt to improve matters, but from what I've heard it adtually doesnt make much improvement to the rather leaden feel.

To be fair in isolation its probably decent enough, but there are so many lively feeling and fun 20 inch folders out there they've released it into shark infested waters.

 

[Fastpedaller]

That's an early one with the old-style hinge, and the history is unknown. The hinges were improved many years ago. That's a classic case of tube embrittlement, and it occurs even more frequently where there is a weld (as opposed to a braze).

I would like someone at Brompton to explain why the G line cost well over double what a C line costs. Same design, larger parts. Add a few hundred bucks for more material and disc brakes but beyond that it’s just a huge gouge.

I worked as an engineer in manufacturing my entire career… including costing products and production equipment. Yes they would have to tool up for the large frame etcetera but I can’t see how they can justify a roughly %110 price increase over a C line. ( based on Canadian prices )

Want to sell more bike? STOP GOUGING.

I am happy with my C line but it’s not that good a bike and I can see a few questionable design features on it, once its trendy boutique bike aura fades a bit they’ll be in trouble.

Like any business they will attempt to sell for the highest price - Do you have an iPhone? They have a huge markup and after a few years the software changes within the tech World and almost forces the customer to buy a new one!

 

[Drago]

Unless you personally know the bike the history of all of them is unknown.

 

[TC99]

Maybe Brompton should visit a well known chap north of the border. He has produced some remarkable Bromptons. If a guy working alone in a shed can produce such quality bikes what's holding Brompton back?
Ok I was joking about the shed. However his upgrades are superb.

Try getting repairs done on the road for a Brompton with kinetics mods. Belt drive spares sir? No. Custom gearing spares sir? No. etc etc.
I have kept my P line pretty much stock. Added more gears but that is it. @tinywheels. What improvements would you like to see exactly? I get a bit tired of the endless marketing of Brompton and think some of the colour schemes are awful but don't see they need to go carbon plastic or alloy frames. I'm a bit dubious of carbon plastic forks too.