How are used Brompton prices..?

[a.twiddler]

I can give the OP the benefit of my own experience. For some time I was a Brompton sceptic -over rated, over priced, a Metropolitan fad, better value elsewhere, etc, etc.

Last year I read a lot about Bromptons. The Viking Safari I had catered for all my folding bike needs, and I certainly enjoyed riding it when the need arose. I kept thinking what if… I got a bus pass...Veterans’ rail pass ...and took a truly small folding bike with me as luggage? Also I was curious about all the Brompton hype. Only how much could I justify paying?

Since I don’t live in the teeming metrollops or indeed, have the misfortune to live in any large city, there wasn't a source of used Bromptons on tap. That left the usual suspects of ebay, gumtree or lesser advertising sites or even cycle forum for sale boards. I came across some obviously rather dubious sellers as well as some who knew very well what their item could fetch.

I soon realized that unless you found a seller on your doorstep you would either a) have to be prepared to trek to some far flung outpost of empire in the hope of being the solitary bidder or b) find a seller who did post or courier in which case you would have to do battle with legions of other bidders. As for Buy It Now you could still buy a B75, among others, new for less than several sellers were hoping to sell theirs for. A bargain Brompton is a really good definition of an oxymoron. They really do sell very well, and the competition can be fierce.

After a few days of looking at this alternative reality I had to take a break and went for a nice bike ride. I pondered whether I wanted to continue with this. After all I had a perfectly good 20” wheel folder which fitted in the car and met my folding bike needs as well as riding very well. It just lacked that nth degree of luggage rack compactness for an impromptu, unbooked train journey for example. After years of travelling miles to work, then many more years of living close to work, and now being retired and allegedly free to do what I want, I had a taste of leisure related train travel that summer which started off the “what if”s.

Initially I was looking for a used M6L or similar, but for that price you could go for a new B75. That was tempting in itself, new bike, nice aquamarine paint scheme, but still got to go for the guards and rack at least. I decided to limit myself to an M3R/L. Even a old T5 would seem to go for as much as as a new B75, and I’d had a question mark over the finicky adjustment of the old Sturmey 5 speeders from previous experience.

I gave it a bit of time and saw several auctions go for out of range amounts but a couple where they were more achievable.

After looking at auctions with postage, and being irritated at better deals with collection only in distant parts of the country I communicated with some sellers and narrowed down possible deals. One 3 speeder looked promising, but I was surprised to find how old it was, and due to an enthusiastic owner and a nice colour scheme it went for a surprising amount after 56 bids when I didn’t follow it up. Another couple of 3 speeders went for unfeasible amounts which also weren’t so new.

I was beginning to think that unless a relative left me one or I stumbled accross an affordable one that had been lying neglected for years in someone's dry barn I wasn't going to find one.

Finally I came across an almost -local white 3 speeder with rack, mudguards, luggage block and hub dynamo with LED lights where the bids had remained low for several days. It could have been better advertised as I had to contact the seller for even basic information. Surprisingly I won it.

Had I lost my mind? All those years of bargaining and trying to get the best deals in other spheres and now in this bizarre new context this does seem to be a good deal, though it would take a while to convince myself. In the end, it is what it is.

So I bought M3R in plain white. It had a few minor jobs needing to be done, and I had to change the gearing to suit me, but it has proved to be a good sound bike.

Do I regret spending about £500 on a used Brompton? On the face of it, it's a bike made of not particularly lightweight steel with an old fashioned gearing system, looks very weird and doesn't look as if it will work very well.

In reality, it rides very well, folds brilliantly, and is lots of fun to ride. You can literally take it anywhere when folded and I have found the front bag system to be excellent, and unlike some luggage systems on bikes, actually improves stability when loaded. It's quite capable of being ridden on longer trips. I contacted Brompton with the serial number and they were able to tell me that it was made in October 2012.
In the rareified atmosphere of Bromptonland the price I paid seems to make it a pretty good bargain compared with current used prices.
Nothing (that I can afford) folds like a Brompton, maybe some Asiatic clones, but with Brompton support and spares available, maybe "Made in England" still counts for something.

My Viking folder hasn't been used since I bought the Brompton, and I ended up selling it. I have used the Brompton quite a lot, almost as much as my other bikes. The only drawback is that although I don't live in a high crime area, I'm very conscious that every thieving scrote would probably like to get hold of one, so it either goes everywhere I go, or it's locked away at home, something I never had to worry about with the nondescript Viking.

I have posted some of the above previously but have updated it in the hope that it might be useful to the OP.

 

[ExBrit]

I see you're in Oxford so I'm not sure how much this helps. Brompton USA and REI have both lowered the price of Bromptons by 20% so my son -in-law just bought one for much less than I paid. Also take a look at Zizzo bikes. They don't have as small a fold as a Brompton (no-one does) but they're reasonably priced and review well.

 

[Kell]

Moultons don't fold. Most can be split into two halves but the two halves are large, unwieldy and non-self supporting. More for taking on holiday (in a car) than for commuting. The joke is that owners of separable Moultons never separate them.

There was a guy on my normal train ran a moulton for years without anyone (as far as I could see) ever asking him about it or demanding it be folded.

Whereas I regularly had guards asking me about my Dahon folder with 26" wheels - because it doesn't look like a 'small-wheel' folder.

I have to say, I disagree with berlinonaut that there aren't alternatives. There are, and you own some. But in the same way that a car is an alternative method of transport to a train, many of those other options do very different things.

I've owned four folders (my Brompton is the 4th) and have test ridden several other small-wheel folders before deciding on the Brompton.

I'd say the reason that Bromptons hold their SH value above other folders is that they tend to represent the best of the compromises you have to make.

As a commuting bike, I don't think they can be beaten. the size of the fold, versus the cost, versus the quality of ride, versus the weight is about right. Other bikes might do one of these things better, but I don't think many, if any, get close to competing across the board.

The Birdy always seemed to be the most natural competition due to broadly equivalent pricing. Many reviews I've read online say it rides better than the Brompton - but it was one of the ones I never got around to testing.

 

[matticus]

Moultons don't fold. Most can be split into two halves but the two halves are large, unwieldy and non-self supporting. More for taking on holiday (in a car) than for commuting. The joke is that owners of separable Moultons never separate them.

LWaB (in the other place - does he post on here?) definitely takes his on planes - in laundry bags! I watched him+1 re-assemble theirs at Hamburg airport. They were so practiced, it took them less time than I took re-attaching my rear derailleur. Certainly not a 2-minute job though.

 

[rogerzilla]

The Mezzo was the closest competitor for a while and was reputed to ride a lot better, but the fold was badly designed (I believe the front wheel had to be released from the fork) and spares were hard to get. They are now quite cheap secondhand, and possibly not fixable when they break.

 

[mustang1]

I remember when I was looking for a folding bike. Brompton was the only one for my consideration. The other bikes fold, but they don't "Brompton fold". The others are bikes, but they ain't Bromptons.

 

[BigJackBrass]

The Mezzo was the closest competitor for a while and was reputed to ride a lot better

When I tried a Mezzo I found it alarmingly flexible, not a feature I look for in something I'm trying to steer around corners. Nicely light, but I thought it was a pretty hairy ride.

In the end I bought a Brompton, but after five years or so the repair costs wore me down (I've never had spokes break like they do on a Brompton) and I sold it to my bike mechanic: he fixed it up as a courtesy bike to lend to customers if he had to take theirs away to fix.

 

[tinywheels]

When I tried a Mezzo I found it alarmingly flexible, not a feature I look for in something I'm trying to steer around corners. Nicely light, but I thought it was a pretty hairy ride.

In the end I bought a Brompton, but after five years or so the repair costs wore me down (I've never had spokes break like they do on a Brompton) and I sold it to my bike mechanic: he fixed it up as a courtesy bike to lend to customers if he had to take theirs away to fix.

I've ridden my brompton hard,off road,up and down kerbs regular commute etc.Never had a breakage. I weigh 15 stone at present time.
Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[ExBrit]

When I tried a Mezzo I found it alarmingly flexible, not a feature I look for in something I'm trying to steer around corners. Nicely light, but I thought it was a pretty hairy ride.

In the end I bought a Brompton, but after five years or so the repair costs wore me down (I've never had spokes break like they do on a Brompton) and I sold it to my bike mechanic: he fixed it up as a courtesy bike to lend to customers if he had to take theirs away to fix.

I weigh 100kgs and have ridden my Brompton many miles on some evil trails. No mech failures at all. Not even a flat. I think your wheel builder needs to take remedial classes.

 

[rogerzilla]

Brompton-sized wheels aren't inherently bad but they are often shockingly awful from the factory. I always rebuild them as a matter of course, then they never break spokes.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Brompton-sized wheels aren't inherently bad but they are often shockingly awful from the factory. I always rebuild them as a matter of course, then they never break spokes.

I’m not technically adept when it comes to wheels, and I’ve never tinkered but find it fascinating and have watched several YouTube videos of various people wheel building. The only thing I’ve done is to pluck the spokes on the wheel I swapped out when fitting a new Brompton dynamo wheel.
Did you strip the wheels down to the components or loosen the spokes and start from scratch?

 

[chriswoody]

I know that this won't go down well, but yes, there really are practical alternatives to Bromptons.

Back in 2015 I purchased a Tern Link Uno, brand new for €400. For the last 7 years it's faultlessly carried me to work and back year-round, which as well as cycling, includes a 20 minute train journey in the middle. It's also a daily work horse bike for quick runs to the shops for milk/bread etc.

In all that time it's cost me peanuts to run, it is single speed with a rear coaster brake and front dual pivot brake. Very simple mechanically and easy to maintain with stock off the shelf parts, perfect for a commuter. It came with mudguards and a rack, the only omission from the stock spec for mine, was a hub dynamo, which would make the bike perfect. 20 inch wheels and a stiff aluminium frame mean it rides well.

I know Bromptons are good bikes, but in all the years of ownership, the only thing I can see that a Brompton does better is fold smaller and hold its second hand value. Neither of those though, are enough in my mind to justify the much higher initial purchase cost.

 

[berlinonaut]

Brompton-sized wheels aren't inherently bad but they are often shockingly awful from the factory. I always rebuild them as a matter of course, then they never break spokes.

Again this is a story you've often told and, as with other issues you complain about with the brompton, once more you seem to be the only one suffering from that issue for years and years. I've never stumbled upon mentions of those issues and never had them myself.
Smaller wheels like on the Brompton are generally more rigid and more robust than i.e. nomal 622 wheels on bigger bikes. Bromton changed the compontents from rims over spokes to hubs various times over the last decades, so there is no such thing as "the Brompton wheel".
They used to get their wheels built by an external company until recently - it has been the same company throughout the years and a reputable wheel builder. Not too long ago they insourced the process into their new factory (a couple of years after the move) as it eases up logistics and due to the rise in production numbers the external company could not fulfill demand. I've read somewhere about the details but unfortenatly forgot most of them like the name of the external company and if the wheels were handbuild (I think they were but am not sure). However: Currently their seem to be issues with some wheels coming from the factory out of true. So the inhouse process probably still has it's issues and there seems - as with other parts of the manufactoring - furthermore to be an an issue with quality assurance as well as with customer care as the cases I've read about were simply declared "normal standard" by Brompton.
Overall, together with the other issues we here about in roughly the last two years, Brompton seem to suffer from typical scaling problems: They changed processes, rised the production numbers massively and this leads to unwelcome effects until the new system has stabilized.

When spokes break there can be a number of reasons for that an only some of them are related to the wheel build. Some are due to misuse or overload, some are due to corrosion, resulting from i.e. use in winter on salty roads w/o proper clean. Some are due do improper, insufficient or cheap materials. Personally I never had a broken spoke on a Brompton but one on a friend's Brompton. After about 10 years of heavy and intensive use. Not a huge issue in my eyes.

 

[berlinonaut]

I know that this won't go down well, but yes, there really are practical alternatives to Bromptons.

Back in 2015 I purchased a Tern Link Uno, brand new for €400. For the last 7 years it's faultlessly carried me to work and back year-round, which as well as cycling, includes a 20 minute train journey in the middle. It's also a daily work horse bike for quick runs to the shops for milk/bread etc.

In all that time it's cost me peanuts to run, it is single speed with a rear coaster brake and front dual pivot brake. Very simple mechanically and easy to maintain with stock off the shelf parts, perfect for a commuter. It came with mudguards and a rack, the only omission from the stock spec for mine, was a hub dynamo, which would make the bike perfect. 20 inch wheels and a stiff aluminium frame mean it rides well.

I know Bromptons are good bikes, but in all the years of ownership, the only thing I can see that a Brompton does better is fold smaller and hold its second hand value. Neither of those though, are enough in my mind to justify the much higher initial purchase cost.

Obviously there are alternatives in the sense that there are other folding bikes. Depending from your use case they may be an alternative or not and you may have to live with some disadvantages or may get some advantages from them.
But it is silly to claim there would be alternatives if you did not have the chance to really compare those to a Brompton in daily use over a longer period of time. If you did not do that claiming the "alternative" is just plain phantasy as you don't really know what you are talking about and obviously everyone suffers from ownership-bias, Brompton owners as well as owners of other bikes.
I do own a lot of different folding bikes and to me there is no real alternative to the Brompton - but obviously there are use cases where a Brompton is not best suited for or where other bikes are better. The surprise is how well a Brompton fits to a lot of usage scenarios to a very good or at least acceptable amount whereas most other folders do have their issues here: They are in most cases not as universal or not as good fitting as a Brompton. A lot of this has to do with the fold and the small size of the package.
If you barely fold and don't have to rely on taking the bike with you where ever you go and on a small fold there are indeed alternatives. But you cannot imagine the advantages and change in practicabilty through the small package of a folded Brompton if you only talk about it in theory w/o having experienced it.

 

[matticus]

Bromptons seem very expensive compared to very similar alternatives.