How to get the government to invest more in cycling infrastructure?

[XmisterIS]

http://www.bikebiz.c...e-members-clubs

In London anyway - very recently announced. I don't want to debate the costs or anything - but considering what people pay for gyms etc, a step in the right direction if it takes off.

Well, that is excellent progress! I hope it catches on in other places too and for the daily commuter, those prices are cheaper than running a car. The article to which I referred was published back in the 1990's.

 

[HJ]

I have a few manifesto suggestions here. Don't talk about "cycling" it has got a bad name politically, talk about "active travel". Don't talk about make the roads safer for cyclist, they lycra louts have given people who ride bicycles a bad name, talk about making the roads safer for children, most people like children. Talk about the cost saving that can be made by encouraging active travel, politicians like cost cutting. Use humour, make people laugh and they will come on to your side...

 

[summerdays]

I don't know, I fondly imagined that the cost would be lowering a couple of kerbs and putting a sign up, which should be about £1000 if the work involved is comparable to adding a dropped kerb for a homeowner to gain vehicle access to their property over the pavement. . Yes, probably more than another 0.7 metre wide green paint exercise, but still less than e.g. Torrington Place and certainly less than any scheme that requires additional road space to be purchased from landowners.

I suspect the cost comes into it from the point of view of all the additional work needed. If you are going to block a road then the traffic will be diverted... where - so before and after surveys and then there is public consultation. It seems to turn something that sounded simple into something much bigger. I suspect there are other costs involved that I haven't thought about.

 

[georgina]

I agree - we must keep it on the agenda. By talking, researching, showing by example and writing dissertations on the topic (which is what I am doing!) people start to think about the subject further, when people contemplate a topic more, the possibility of them jumping on a bike themselves draws nearer. More often then not, the option of cycling to work - and the benefits, just haven't occurred to "Joe Bloggs" Also I would say that a bit of a push to get people on their bikes is also useful, and if that can come from the government in terms of a financial loss as a result of using your car or a financial benefit by using your bike, that would also help!

 

[marinyork]

I agree - we must keep it on the agenda. By talking, researching, showing by example and writing dissertations on the topic (which is what I am doing!) people start to think about the subject further, when people contemplate a topic more, the possibility of them jumping on a bike themselves draws nearer. More often then not, the option of cycling to work - and the benefits, just haven't occurred to "Joe Bloggs" Also I would say that a bit of a push to get people on their bikes is also useful, and if that can come from the government in terms of a financial loss as a result of using your car or a financial benefit by using your bike, that would also help!

It's where the travel plan stuff has been going the last five years. A lot of the early travel plans were quite primitive and didn't cover many companies/organisations, now they are becoming common and they are focusing more on quality and innovative ideas than a bog standard service. The problem comes like on another thread where someone was talking about getting cycle parking in schools and yet their ideas are out of date. Travel plans is where it's at whether you like it or not. For example I was at a meeting recently where they were talking about a travel plan and talking about giving out a free bus pass and intensive talk through for individuals about how to use a bus.

 

[georgina]

Better to increase VED, introduce road tolling on peak hour motor traffic, increase tax on road fuel, reduce the number of on street parking places in urban areas, increase public car park charges, introduce taxation on workplace and supermarket parking.

Hi snorri, hard measures have a larger effect because they are more likely to get people thinking differently. However, the problem lies with the opinion of the people. For example, in Manchester a congestion charge was suggested in 2008, but the final vote was put to the greater Manchester population and they voted 79% against it. So the hard measures suggested are good, I think firm action does need to be taken however, if the people do not agree with it, is it worth it since the government are meant to be serving the opinion of the population? In my opinion, the bottom up approach is good, and if the government can get the wider population to see the benefits of cycling before stricter regulations are bought in then they would have the support of the people.

 

[brokenbetty]

The best way to encourage cycling is to get out there and be seen on a bike doing normal stuff in normal clothes, riding along as part of the traffic with hand signals and a smile. If you don't get yourself in a lather you don't need washing facilities.

The best way to keep people thinking cycling isn't for them is to buy a bike like a razor blade with no luggage capacity at all, dress in team colour lycra, dive in and out of traffic with a scowl using whatever lanes and light phases take your fancy and finally turn up at your destination looking like a boil in the bag frankfuter.

 

[georgina]

What might be a cheaper and more effective way of encouraging cycling would be to introduce a law of presumed liability for a bigger vehicle hitting a smaller one (sometimes called strict liability). In this case a car driver would be presumed to be at fault in the event of a collision with a cyclist (and a cyclist at fault in a collision with a pedestrian) unless it was proven otherwise. It might just give more vulnerable road users some more respect.

I agree - like how it is done at sea: larger machine powered boats give way to the man-powered ones.

 

[georgina]

Sorry to sound negative, and more power to the visionaries who just see this as a challange, but I can't see it happening.

A little case study that I thought you might like: During and after the war bikes were extensively used in European cities since they were a cheap way of getting around. However, in the 1960s/1970s motorised travel was taking off all over Europe and cities were making changes left, right and centre to create space and facilities for them. Copenhagen at the time was no different to any other city, the city council were putting forward plans to build roads over what cycling facilities were there, and direct cyclists on to quieter back roads however there was a public outcry and the young Copenhagen's demonstrated against the reduction in importance of the cycling facilities. There was some contempt in government but they eventually yielded to the dominance of cycling in their city - and today, they have 37% of commuters going by bike within the city. I think there is a lot of money floating around in government, and if the public campaign for it hard enough then it can be directed to wherever they want it to go.

 

[ufkacbln]

Hi georgina

Welcome to the forum!

There is a massive debate in cycling campaigns about integration and segregation, which I won't delve into here and now.

I also feel that with the current government there is not going to be any funds available- however to look for the change within government or statutory bodies is mistaken in my books at the way to change cycling is to get more people doing it - and that starts in the workplace/streets with something simple such as being a riding buddy for a nervous friend/colleague.

from the ground up!

Hi and welcome.. please don't think we are running your ideas down because they are valuable and we need to have thses ideas voiced.

One of the biggest problems though are cyclists themselves!

An experience cyclist will travel at speeds unsuitable for any facility suited for shared use and as in the DfT Code of Conduct for Cyclists should be on the road. This group do not want to be segregated and sidelined on to off road or indirect routes. Equally there is the Sustrans charity and the National Cycle Network who feel that the facilities for cycling should be such that they can be safely used by a competent ten year old child.

Sustrans heart may be in the right place, but the problems they have are manifest in the network itself. Councils build facilities that are then poorly (or simply not) maintained, so they become useless.

I don't think there is a simple answer, but as others said - we need to keep asking questions

 

[Dan B]

I suspect the cost comes into it from the point of view of all the additional work needed. If you are going to block a road then the traffic will be diverted... where - so before and after surveys and then there is public consultation.

Well yeah. I was actually thinking more of opening roads up to cyclists that have already been blocked to general traffic. If they're already open to cars, no need to do anything special for cyclists

 

[marinyork]

Well yeah. I was actually thinking more of opening roads up to cyclists that have already been blocked to general traffic. If they're already open to cars, no need to do anything special for cyclists

Depends what you mean by open to cars. One way streets and no entry signs cause great problems because you aren't allowed to put an 'except cyclists' sign on it, even in situations it'd be good practical to do so. Instead you have to spend large sums of money building and island, move one no entry sign, put up a blue sign on the other side, put in a contraflow cycle lane and so on. Drives planners nuts. It's the point I was getting at originally. You could make several changes to the law that'd make devising cut throughs a lot easier and cheaper.

 

[steve52]

a lot of railway lines sit in a lot of land could we not use some of this as a pace to biuld cycle paths? the added bounse of no steep hills, and lets have a plicy that any new road or upgradw has a cycle path included allway seperate where poss, i say cycle path but exept shareing with skaters runners electric buggys ect ,

 

[marinyork]

Hi snorri, hard measures have a larger effect because they are more likely to get people thinking differently. However, the problem lies with the opinion of the people. For example, in Manchester a congestion charge was suggested in 2008, but the final vote was put to the greater Manchester population and they voted 79% against it. So the hard measures suggested are good, I think firm action does need to be taken however, if the people do not agree with it, is it worth it since the government are meant to be serving the opinion of the population? In my opinion, the bottom up approach is good, and if the government can get the wider population to see the benefits of cycling before stricter regulations are bought in then they would have the support of the people.

I agree very strongly with snorri, apart from tolling. The measures snorri talks about aren't necessarily just hard measures. If you take taxing work place parking, out of town shopping and supermarkets the idea is to have a pool of money that is then handed over to the travel plan people. It also pushes things slightly at the planning stage into more desirable outcomes. With these funds you can do all sorts of things - free cycle training, subsidised or free bus journeys, free bus service, installation of showers, installation of lockers, installation of stands, walkers/cyclists' breakfasts and many more things. If you put all of the parking levy into transport plans you could get a transformation from what we have now - facilities everywhere coupled with training, incentives, nagging and other options like bus and walking.

 

[Glow worm]

Depends what you mean by open to cars. One way streets and no entry signs cause great problems because you aren't allowed to put an 'except cyclists' sign on it, even in situations it'd be good practical to do so.

This has always bugged me- seems crazy. Is there any practical reason for such a law that I can't think of?!
There are plenty of junctions like the one you describe in Cambridge such as this one: