How to get the government to invest more in cycling infrastructure?

[Black Sheep]

My methods of encouraging cycling:

(please bear in mind that I live in a city that has a completely circular ringroad and a network of subways by which to get pedestrians in and out of the centre)

Cycle lanes that allow more timid cyclists to access the subway without being told 'cyclists dismount' every 2m

signs on the roundabouts for drivers saying 'beware of cyclists' or similar (many of us just blast it across the roundabouts with the traffic)

less road paint on the lanes, there is one lane on the roundabout I won't use as there are three lines of text painted on every few meters - I came off the bike once due to a zebra crossing on a corner so am perhaps a bit over cautious, but don't want to be in a heap on a roundabout!

once in the city centre, signposts to cycle parking areas

proper alternative route signposts - there are some, but can be a bit hit and miss for finding your way with them.

less bus lanes, the ones near me are awful - one of them makes the bus lane essentially a separate entrance onto a roundabout so when you set off in a bike or a car, you have a bus suddenly pull out on you. I also seem to get bullied most by taxi's when I'm in a bus lane.

when closing a road to traffic, just plonk an island in the middle but leave enough space for a road sweeper to get through each side, that'll do nicely.

ban BSO sales as riding these just discourages cycling!

that'll do for now


in my mind its one of those thinks, people aren't really waiting for the cycling route infrastructure to be there before starting, they're wondering what to do about that huge great roundabout that's on their commute or where they're going to leave the bike,

when I had my interview for my current job one of the questions I asked was "is there any possibility of storing my bike inside?" had they said no, i'd have just locked it up outside sainsburys opposite where there is some parking.

many students seem to be happy riding to and from uni in the city centre but don't continue to do so when they're working in the city centre, the main reason it seems is not really knowing where they can leave the bike or how to carry what they need with them - a fellow cyclist once stopped me to ask about my pannier (big altura laptop one) as they'd not found one big enough yet.

we're not going to get the whole world on bikes unless people start living closer again to where they work, we will get some if they can see a route they could take on a sunny day when they've dragged the bike out of the shed and dusted it off, find it not that hard and do it for a few weeks of the summer - these people may then take up the cycle to work scheme to get a better bike for it and then more likely to use it

 

[snorri]

Black Sheep, I don't think you have thought this through.
You complain about the inadequacies of public transport yet complain about bus lanes which improve the efficiency of public transport services. You don't want the price of private motoring to increase, even although the real price of motoring has been falling for many years during which public transport fares have been increasing.

 

[marinyork]

Black Sheep, I don't think you have thought this through.
You complain about the inadequacies of public transport yet complain about bus lanes which improve the efficiency of public transport services. You don't want the price of private motoring to increase, even although the real price of motoring has been falling for many years during which public transport fares have been increasing.

I think the roundabout point is a good one. I don't think planners take anywhere enough attention to these for cyclists and the problems it can cause with less confident cyclists. I think the rest of his posts were a bit ranty and excuse filled though.

 

[Gandalf]

The more cyclists demand cycle lanes, either painted or segregated, the more cyclists will be expected to keep to 'their bits' ans stay out of the way of cars. All the cycle lanes that I know of are more dangerous and inconvenient than the road would be without them.

I very, very rarely use cycle paths, the only useful one that springs to mind is that bit alongside the A24 Dorking To Leatherhead.

By way of an experiment I took a different route home from work yesterday, confining myself solely to an off-road cycle path and a shared cyclist/pedestrian route.

Here's my findings

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=whAaVm-oZ6Q

 

[Black Sheep]

Black Sheep, I don't think you have thought this through.
You complain about the inadequacies of public transport yet complain about bus lanes which improve the efficiency of public transport services. You don't want the price of private motoring to increase, even although the real price of motoring has been falling for many years during which public transport fares have been increasing.

That is in response to people saying ''put the price of motoring up, that'll put people onto public transport / bike / walking, I'm trying to point out the knock on effects that has in other areas. I'm also pointing out, when people seem to be saying they don't understand why people don't use public transport, the reasons that I drive, often, as you point out, cost is a factor.

I do also take offense at station staff suggesting that for my wife to use the train to get to work for 7.30am that she gets the 23.45 to one station, then gets the 6.15am to the station near work. I'd rather they just say "sorry, there isn't a train running at that time on a weekend" I just don't understand how management of bus companies or rail companies look around and think the company is doing well when it often is, at best, mediocre especially when compared to various places in europe (Swiss, Polish, etc)

I think the roundabout point is a good one. I don't think planners take anywhere enough attention to these for cyclists and the problems it can cause with less confident cyclists. I think the rest of his posts were a bit ranty and excuse filled though.

The points I made were done as an ideal world kind of view. The bus lane onto the roundabout I have always avoided using, preferring to mix it with the cars being in the middle lane to go straight on (first exit takes you up a steep ramp onto the ring road) and is not anywhere I'd recommend a timid cyclist to be.

I'm not fond of bus lanes, I don't see the point when there are so many roads near me that have a bus lane for the part that never has traffic queuing on it, but then the lane ends for the bus to join the queue, nor do I understand why there is a bus lane recently been put in on a road that has no bus route on it.

Also, why have a busses only section of a road, narrow it to a single lane to give more space to pedestrians and then not bother to enforce it? The whole of town got blocked up by a taxi and bus that met going through it, taxi refused to back up, bus legally can't reverse with people on board or without a banksman to guide him back. Would make sense if it was enforced.

taxi eventually got told to move and arrested for obstructing the highway.

I think my problem is more that I can't see the sense in the cycle facilities on the roads I use, would like to see advised routes to large destinations, the one to the uni that isn't in the city centre has actually been well thought out following a route through a housing estate instead of a very busy road on a steep hill and is well signposted, so why not do the same to show how to get to the station and on signposts to car parks, put a blue cycle parking direction too? I also fail to see the logic in some of the other planning that the council do, perhaps more of my problem is with them?

 

[summerdays]

I like bus lanes - they are brilliant cycle lanes and often the buses can't use them cos some motorist has gone and parked in them so I get them to use them without buses even sometimes.

 

[marinyork]

That is in response to people saying ''put the price of motoring up, that'll put people onto public transport / bike / walking, I'm trying to point out the knock on effects that has in other areas. I'm also pointing out, when people seem to be saying they don't understand why people don't use public transport, the reasons that I drive, often, as you point out, cost is a factor.

We all know the knock on effects. I used to work in hospital and heard all of the endless gripes by nurses who claimed they couldn't get to work unless they had their own parking space - the vast majority were deeply unrealistic moans and were no different for countless other workers out there. NHS trusts actually have their own travel plans, it's just that many of them aren't anywhere near as good as they think they are. If things change these trusts will do fine they'll have a back up plan. I agree with what snorri has said very heavily apart from about congestion charging which I think is too crude an instrument in most cases.

The reason I cycle is cost. The reason why people ride on BSOs which you just dismiss is actually if you bothered to talk to the people that ride them - cost of public transport.

I think my problem is more that I can't see the sense in the cycle facilities on the roads I use, would like to see advised routes to large destinations, the one to the uni that isn't in the city centre has actually been well thought out following a route through a housing estate instead of a very busy road on a steep hill and is well signposted, so why not do the same to show how to get to the station and on signposts to car parks, put a blue cycle parking direction too? I also fail to see the logic in some of the other planning that the council do, perhaps more of my problem is with them?

This city used to be shocking for sign posting, but the last two years they've really focused on putting up loads of blue signs for bicycles. I don't think it's a panacea. I think it's nice to have, it may well help some newbies or visitors. These things cost a lot of money though. An arterial route near me that was basically a few bits of minor work and then loads of sign posting and a couple of TROs cost £70,000. It's not a bad route, I like it, in the context of the transport budget and other things that cost £70,000, I think it's a difficult one. Cycle parking signs sometimes happen, again it's be a nice extra, it's next to impossible to get councils to put cycle parking in anyway.

 

[Black Sheep]

The reason I cycle is cost. The reason why people ride on BSOs which you just dismiss is actually if you bothered to talk to the people that ride them - cost of public transport.

The weight and other issues associated with BSO's gives people the opinion that cycling is hard work and bikes are heavy puts some people off using it regularly.

I know some staff at various places will claim they can't do their job without having a parking space reserved, where my wife works at the moment it's a permit system for the staff car park, but it also assumes that one third of the permit holders won't be present at any one time so there are more permits than space, it seems to work but does mean that it can be hard to get parked easily as the early and late shifts overlap by a few hours.

what concerns me most with increasing costs for motoring is how reliant business, especially the community roles of the NHS, are on private transport.

 

[marinyork]

The weight and other issues associated with BSO's gives people the opinion that cycling is hard work and bikes are heavy puts some people off using it regularly.

Yes. However a lot of people simply don't have the finances to go and buy a £300 bike. They would be absolutely horrified at the amounts of money splashed on bikes by other cyclists. They do get the wrong impression of cycling, however you try and explain all this to someone who has a BSO and thinks it is their pride and joy. It's not ideal but we're stuck with so called BSOs, they are a part of cycling as much as anything else.

I know some staff at various places will claim they can't do their job without having a parking space reserved, where my wife works at the moment it's a permit system for the staff car park, but it also assumes that one third of the permit holders won't be present at any one time so there are more permits than space, it seems to work but does mean that it can be hard to get parked easily as the early and late shifts overlap by a few hours.

Same in a lot of hospitals. I knew the people that ran out car park so knew the ins and outs of it very well. I sympathise but it's what the travel plans are for. As I've already said really the travel plans need to have a lot more teeth than they do at the moment, we adopted them far too late in this country and I've scrutinised trust travel plans and they must improve. I know people think that's some airy fairy nonsense unrelated to whether your wife can park or not but the two are in fact very linked and in the long run the only game in town. It is one of the most important ways of improving cycling in this country.

what concerns me most with increasing costs for motoring is how reliant business, especially the community roles of the NHS, are on private transport.

It is reliant on private transport. Overall the benefits to society outweigh these things though, they are things we can deal with. The NHS trusts round here spend tens of millions of pounds every year dealing with early deaths and diseases directly attributed to motor pollution alone.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Want Fairness and liability on the roads? Try writing to your MP, I did. It is better than doing nothing...

Well, after my earlier reply to this message, where I said I had indeed written to my MP, I have now received a response.

You can find the original email and the response here, along with my comments.

(Hope it's OK to reference my blog here rather than reproducing the whole text, but there's a lot of it.)

 

[BentMikey]

This is a very interesting email posted recently by David Dansky of CTUK:

CTUK attended the Road Danger Reduction Forum

Lambeth's Richard Ambler presented a variety of transport interventions and asked these 2 questions.

1. Does it promote benign forms of transport (Like cycling and walking)?
2. Does it reduce danger at source?

Try it...
Cycle lanes
1. Yes people may choose to ride if there is a cycle lane
2. No may increase danger since source of danger (car driver) may not see them

Helmets
1. No may put people off cycling
2. No may even increase danger from source (drivers) because of risk compensation

Cycle Training
1. Yes people are more likely to ride following training
2. Yes people ride where they prevent drivers from risky overtaking

What about 20mph limits, guard-rails around junctions. HGV driver training, TfL HGV blind spot campaign... etc ?

Here is their charter which has been signed by a number of Local Authorities in London

The Road Danger Reduction Charter pledges to:
1. Seek a genuine reduction in danger for all road users by identifying and controlling the principal sources of threat.
2. Find new measures to define the level of danger on our roads. These would more accurately monitor the use of and threat to benign modes.
3. Discourage the unnecessary use of motor transport where alternative benign modes or public transport are equally or more viable.
4. Pursue a transport strategy for environmentally sustainable travel based on developing efficient, integrated public transport systems.
This would recognise that current levels of motor traffic should not be increased.
5. Actively promote cycling and walking, which pose little threat to other road users, by taking positive and co-ordinated action to increase the safety and mobility of these benign modes.
6. Promote the adoption of this charter as the basis of both national and international transport policy.


David

 

[HJ]

Done. I have sent the following through http://www.writetothem.com/

I have copied bits from the letter in the page you referenced; I hope they don't mind.

....

Good the more the better!!

 

[Banjo]

It seems washing facilities and good cycle storage are ways to encourage everyone to cycle more and drive less. Any suggestions for improvements to cycling infrastructure which would encourage colleagues to leave their car behind? Say there were cycle lanes (perhaps segregated) and priority for cyclists at junctions along major routes into city centres would that increase the number of miles cycled in the UK everyday? The government need to be encouraged that a large investment in cycling facilities will be "vale la pena" i.e. worth it! before they invest.

Greetings Georgina I think that money would be better spent on a public awareness campaign to try and educate motorists on how to behave around cyclists. Perhaps if they understood why a cyclist takes primary position at junctions road narrowings etc they would exhibit a little more patience.

Also I think many motorists think they are doing nothing wrong when passing you within an inch of your handlebar.

Remember the think once think twice think bike campaign on tv to reduce the number of motorcyclists being hit at junctions ? Its long overdue for a similar campaign of public education aimed at making cycling safer IMHO.

 

[al78]

Yes. However a lot of people simply don't have the finances to go and buy a £300 bike. They would be absolutely horrified at the amounts of money splashed on bikes by other cyclists. They do get the wrong impression of cycling, however you try and explain all this to someone who has a BSO and thinks it is their pride and joy. It's not ideal but we're stuck with so called BSOs, they are a part of cycling as much as anything else.

That is one of the benefits of the cycle to work scheme, someone can pay for a £300 bike via monthly installments out of gross pay; the net reduction in the monthly wage packet for a bike of this cost would be barely noticeable.

There is also the option of getting a second hand bike if a new one is outside ones budget.

 

[Black Sheep]

Yes. However a lot of people simply don't have the finances to go and buy a £300 bike. They would be absolutely horrified at the amounts of money splashed on bikes by other cyclists. They do get the wrong impression of cycling, however you try and explain all this to someone who has a BSO and thinks it is their pride and joy. It's not ideal but we're stuck with so called BSOs, they are a part of cycling as much as anything else.

While that is true, I've helped quite a few friends lately who have been after a bike to ''just get around the place'' on all with budgets less than £200

one bought a £90 ridged mountain bike and is quite happy with it, another bought a ladies step through framed city bike for £120, again, no problems the third friend bought a commuter / touring bike for £230

all of them are much better built and lighter than the BSO's bought from supermarkets and chain toystores etc for a similar price but better suited to the job. (the mtb gained slicks once the owner had worn the standard tyres out)