How Unbelievable is this?

[BentMikey]

...moving over to secondary only after the junction and when it's safe to do so, right?

 

[bauldbairn]

I think that drivers over a certain age should have to take regular driving tests to make sure that they are still fit to drive. Perhaps at 70, 75 and 80 and every couple of years beyond that.

+1, I totally agree.

My mate got wiped out on his Scooter and broke both his Femurs(thigh bones) in Stirling 24 years ago by a driver in his late 70's. The driver drove straight through a roundabout - smashed the scooter out the way and carried on as if nothing had happened(my mate was going round it at this point). The old man was eventually stopped by another scooterist who chased and caught him, blissfully unaware of any incident - despite the damage to his car. It turned out during Police enquiries that he had done exactly the same thing to a motorcyclist a month before - and the police gave him the benefit of the doubt. Not this time though - apparantly he had his licence removed.
Both motorcyclist and scooterist recovered fully - they were both at physio together.

 

[Norm]

The fact that the car driver would possibly think 'bloody cyclists' is irrelevant. At the end of the day you have just as much right to use the road then they have.

Such gloriously blissful arrogance is a beatiful thing to behold.

 

[BentMikey]

Such gloriously blissful arrogance is a beatiful thing to behold.

I hate to say, but that is a misread/misinterpretation of what Lee is saying. I have ridden with the chap, and he is actually rather good even though he seems to have a love of posting controversially.

All he is actually saying is own your space if you need it for safety, and then make it easy for them to pass once you no longer need the space.

 

[Norm]

Which is a fair point, BM. But riding without any consideration for other road users, which is what Lee appears to be suggesting, is unlikely to do anyone any favours.

 

[4F]

Which is a fair point, BM. But riding without any consideration for other road users, which is what Lee appears to be suggesting, is unlikely to do anyone any favours.

He is not suggesting that at all. He said "At the end of the day you have just as much right to use the road then they have"

Are you disagreeing with that ?

 

[Bollo]

I've had my handbags with lee on occasion as well, but I agree with him 100% on this. There's a big difference between riding assertively and riding in an inconsiderate manner, but its something that seems to get awful muddled when it's debated here.

 

[Norm]

He is not suggesting that at all.

Well, that's your opinion and you are welcome to hold it, but I think that is exactly how this reads.

The fact that the car driver would possibly think 'bloody cyclists' is irrelevant.

As for...

He said "At the end of the day you have just as much right to use the road then they have"

Are you disagreeing with that ?

...nicely dodging the point there.

 

[4F]

Well, that's your opinion and you are welcome to hold it, but I think that is exactly how this reads.


As for...

...nicely dodging the point there.

I am not dodging the point at all. We are all traffic and at the end of the day if a moton is inconvenienced whilst you / I take a safety position on the road then so be it. I do so along a road of traffic islands as otherwise the bastards will try and squeeze past leaving no room, when the hazard has passed then I would move to a secondary position.

I have had many heated discussions with Lee on here in the past but on this ocassion I fully agree with him, we are traffic.

 

[BentMikey]

With all respect, I think you're stretching that interpretation of Lee's words too far, Norm. Lee is simply referring to how many drivers think that anyway of cyclists, even those riding properly. It's not worth compromising your safety for a driver's incorrect opinion.

 

[Norm]

Possibly, BM, quite possibly. As I said in my previous response to you, Lee "appears to be suggesting" that we should disregard consideration for other road users.

That is my interpretation of "The fact that the car driver would possibly think 'bloody cyclists' is irrelevant". Alternative views are available.

 

[joebingo]

This turned into a bit of an essay, sorry.

Yeah sure.

The top two things you have to care of when out on a bike are: 1) your position on the road in relation to other vehicles/road users and 2) read the road ahead and take any necessary action to make sure that number 1 does not come into any conflict of any kind

If I'm at a traffic light on a cross roads, 2 lanes merging to one at the other side of the junction, I'll let a car go in front of me if it's only me and them there. In this situation, me being positioned in the left hand lane and them in the right, my road position puts me in danger if I accelerate away from the lights at the same speed as the car. If there's more than one car there, I'll make sure the driver in the right hand lane has seen me and I'll stay in as strong a primary as possible until I've cleared the junction.

At single lane traffic lights, I'm not in a position when stopped for a car to go first.

While I appreciate that it nice and spreads 'good karma' by giving way to other road users when you don't have to. At the same time it can bring conflict to number 1 and at a junction this is where it is most dangerous.

Obviously it could lead to some very sticky situations. Obviously the unexpected can and does happen, but if I spent too much time dwelling on that, I wouldn't spend much time outside of a plastic bubble . I've learned to trust my instincts though, and I'm still here.

You only have to look at the OP to see what type of idiots are out there. How the hell can a driver see two cyclists and then drive into one of them?!?!

It is scary indeed, and they were both lucky to not have been seriously injured. Some people really shouldn't be on the roads.

That said, the OP was in a position where I and the majority of other people on here would view as dangerous, the car squeezed into a gap too small because the OP had left a gap too large between them and the offside edge of the lane.

In addition Joe you mention when you clip in it can sometimes be inaccurate, what if at this point you have a clipless moment and fall over? If you fall to the right you will either hit the car (who is overtaking you) or and hit the road directly in front of the cars wheels. Only when you have pulled away and clipped in should you move over to secondary

I wait until they're ahead of me before I start to move, again I only do it on certain junctions when I know there is enough space between me and the other car for them to pass safely.

I'm getting a higher success rate when it comes to clipping in though, about 70% of the time I do it straight away. The rest of the time usually involves looking down at the pedal and flipping the thing over (I wish I'd gone for SPDs now hehe).

(1) The fact that the car driver would possibly think 'bloody cyclists' is irrelevant. (2) At the end of the day you have just as much right to use the road then they have.

1. A lot of the time, people do think like that and it leads to cyclists being put in danger that could have been avoided.

2. I used to get very militant about this point and put myself in situations which (looking back) were stupid, now I'm thinking more along the lines of 'right to use the road means very little when you're getting punched in the face.'

I do definitely see exactly where you're coming from Lee, and it's the way I cycle the majority of the time, it's just that I'm often in the situation where I feel safer letting the car be ahead of me. I don't spend too much time cycling in central London though. Whenever I have, I most definitely agree with you 100% of the time.

 

[BentMikey]

Norm, it's pretty obvious when you read his post up above, where he talks about riding in primary for proper safety, and moving over to secondary once clipped in and when it's safe to do so, obv. in order to give the car driver a chance to pass.

 

[joebingo]

I didn't mean like that. I'm not talking about doing 15 mph in primary and bollox to anyone trying to overtake you. I'm talking about riding in a way that protects you and the road space around you.

I know you didn't, I was being all melodramatic and stuff .

That said, there have been times where I've been beeped and shouted at for being in primary when I've just passed a pinch point and now have parked cars to my left. Impatience never ceases to amaze me really, isn't it really stressful being stressed all the time?

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Impatience never ceases to amaze me really

It's nonsensical the manner of some people's impatience - and counter-productive!

Like this morning - I should have taken primary at one junction really, however regardless of that it is not my FAULT if someone first obviously holds back (confirming that he acknowledges it to be too dangerous to pass) then decides to barge through anyway brushing me with his car.

Then to stop and hold everyone else up in the middle of the road to have a stand-off ranting about touching a car (I dropped my hand and gave the side panel a tap) being criminal damage, threatening to call the police but strangely not actually doing so when invited to - perhaps realising that witness-wise he had just made it 2 against 1 by in his temper deliberately driving AT another previously uninvolved cyclist so might not look too good (apart from the criminal damage being bollocks of course)

I just don't get the logic of saving 3 seconds only to stop for 2 minutes. Then to have to follow me all the way until the dual carriageway with me most definitely staying in primary, not giving any chance for any "lesson teaching", and if I hadn't set off first I think we'd still be there from 8am this morning!

Unfortunately I had also lost my temper a little so the exchange wasn't as productive as it could have been, the kid inside of me can't resist responding childishly to threats of "touch my car I'll call the police"