Huawei and Google

[Mo1959]

P30 pro here. Had it for a few months now and love it. Got a bit fed up of Apple and fancied a change. Excellent camera in it.

 

[ColinJ]

Its not commercial sanctions buddy, but a national security consideration. If America came to a commercial arrangement with China tomorrow re trade and commerce, that it would have no effect on the Huaweissue. its legitimate fears over national security. All sorts of Huawei gear from traffic light controllers through to computers and mobile phone network equipment have been found to contain decives that are covertly sending data back to China. A lot of this equipment is owned by western governments, and the company have offered no explanation as to why their equipment has apparently covertly gathering and transmitting facilities installed.

I have just watched 3 years in Wuhan (available HERE on iPlayer in the UK for another 12 days). I found it an interesting little series. One of the companies followed was developing industrial robots. Their CEO made a very telling comment about why the Chinese need to develop their own industrial robots. He said that currently nearly all such robots used in Chinese factories are made abroad by countries which potentially might come into conflict with China. He said that it is well-known that 'backdoors' in tech products could allow foreign companies to control or disable them from a distance and that would be a very bad thing for China... A bit like Chinese companies supplying vital 5G network equipment to the west then?

 

[Profpointy]

Its not commercial sanctions buddy, but a national security consideration. If America came to a commercial arrangement with China tomorrow re trade and commerce, that it would have no effect on the Huaweissue. its legitimate fears over national security. All sorts of Huawei gear from traffic light controllers through to computers and mobile phone network equipment have been found to contain decives that are covertly sending data back to China. A lot of this equipment is owned by western governments, and the company have offered no explanation as to why their equipment has apparently covertly gathering and transmitting facilities installed.

Have they really ?

Is there any substance to that, or just Trump saying so ? It sounds extremely far fetched to me - surely Huawei and China would be far too keen on making money than secret spying on phone calls. Do anyone seriously trust the Yanks more, at least right at the moment?

If I was of a suspicious nature, I might suspect the Americans just want to harm Chinese tech companies whilst their own suppliers try and catch up a bit.

 

[ColinJ]

It sounds extremely far fetched to me - surely Huawei and China would be far too keen on making money than secret spying on phone calls.

It is about a lot more than just listening to phone calls - they could potentially kill off great chunks of the communications networks at the flick of a switch.

I laugh when people say that the equipment wouldn't be used anywhere important. Well, if it isn't important, why would it be built in the first place!

 

[Drago]

Have they really ?

Is there any substance to that, or just Trump saying so ? It sounds extremely far fetched to me - surely Huawei and China would be far too keen on making money than secret spying on phone calls. Do anyone seriously trust the Yanks more, at least right at the moment?

If I was of a suspicious nature, I might suspect the Americans just want to harm Chinese tech companies whilst their own suppliers try and catch up a bit.

The NSA said so. I don't recall The Donald ever having mentioned that specifically, but he may have done.

Ihave no reason to doubt them. I've also no reason to believe that the US arent doing it to other countries, or that the UK doesn't do similar. The difference is I live in the UK, so care quite deeply that our national security is not compromised, but couldn't care less if the UK are able to compromise someone elses. No point playing the game to lose.

 

[ColinJ]

Ihave no reason to doubt them. I've also no reason to believe that the US arent doing it to other countries, or that the UK doesn't do similar. The difference is I live in the UK, so care quite deeply that our national security is not compromised, but couldn't care less if the UK are able to compromise someone elses. No point playing the game to lose.

I was having a chat with a pal about such matters a few years back. I told him that I believed that GCHQ (and probably the NSA?) were monitoring all/most telephone conversations. He laughed and asked how many millions of people they employed to listen in to those conversations. I switched my smartphone on and asked "What is a keyword?" Google robo-woman replied "This is the definition of keyword: a word or concept of great significance." I laughed back at him...

 

[Profpointy]

The NSA said so. I don't recall The Donald ever having mentioned that specifically, but he may have done.

Ihave no reason to doubt them. I've also no reason to believe that the US arent doing it to other countries, or that the UK doesn't do similar. The difference is I live in the UK, so care quite deeply that our national security is not compromised, but couldn't care less if the UK are able to compromise someone elses. No point playing the game to lose.

I just don't see how this would realistically work. Somehow the chinese version of MI6 would connect up through the telco's various layers of firewalls, into their Huawei kit in order to snoop. But if they'd got through all the telco's security, why would they need trhe backdoor - they'd already be "in" as it were. If I were snooping I'd be connecting up on core network side rather than the 5G radio where the all the fuss is being made.

Makes little sense to me, and I'v worked in the industry for over twenty years, admittedly more on the IT side than telco proper, though I did write software for doing short messages many years ago

In any case a lot of systems are hosted in Amazon or Microsoft data centres these days anyway

 

[captain nemo1701]

I wouldn't have anything to do with Huawei. It's not about the performance of their phones etc. Rather the fact that they are the commercial arm of a dictatorial communist party which arrested the doctor who was trying to tell the world about CV19. He then sadly died. In my opinion, the Chinese president and the communist party itself are not worthy to kiss that doctors a***.

 

[Moodyman]

I wouldn't have anything to do with Huawei. It's not about the performance of their phones etc. Rather the fact that they are the commercial arm of a dictatorial communist party which arrested the doctor who was trying to tell the world about CV19. He then sadly died. In my opinion, the Chinese president and the communist party itself are not worthy to kiss that doctors a***.

They are not an arm of the Chinese Govt. They are an in independent company. The concerns* are they will be required to disclose information to the Govt if asked. That is no different to the US Govt asking Apple and Google to disclose information on its users.

China is not dictatorial. It is ruled by the Communist party which has 90 million members. A dictator is one individual with overarching authority. It could be argued the description of a dictator fits the UK better which has one overarching Head of State i.e. Her Majesty.

* Huawei is a pawn in a wider geo-political stand-off with China as it threatens to not only equal the US in technology, but surpass it.

If China really wanted to snoop on us it would use it's world-leading AI capability. But I'm sure Mr Wong in Beijing doesn't care what Mr Waring in Bristol is up to.

Re the Chinese doctor, it was not the Communist party officials but the police who arrested him. The CCP has since apologised for the way he was treated and held remembrance for him.

I guess if I was to rock up to the local police station and tell them strange creatures were landing on earth, I too would be arrested.

Sometimes, one has to look beyond the b8llshit we're fed.

 

[captain nemo1701]

They are not an arm of the Chinese Govt. They are an in independent company. The concerns* are they will be required to disclose information to the Govt if asked. That is no different to the US Govt asking Apple and Google to disclose information on its users.

China is not dictatorial. It is ruled by the Communist party which has 90 million members. A dictator is one individual with overarching authority. It could be argued the description of a dictator fits the UK better which has one overarching Head of State i.e. Her Majesty.

* Huawei is a pawn in a wider geo-political stand-off with China as it threatens to not only equal the US in technology, but surpass it.

If China really wanted to snoop on us it would use it's world-leading AI capability. But I'm sure Mr Wong in Beijing doesn't care what Mr Waring in Bristol is up to.

Re the Chinese doctor, it was not the Communist party officials but the police who arrested him. The CCP has since apologised for the way he was treated and held remembrance for him.

I guess if I was to rock up to the local police station and tell them strange creatures were landing on earth, I too would be arrested.

Sometimes, one has to look beyond the b8llshit we're fed.

They are owned by the communist party who aren't exactly known for tolerating dissent. Plus they're 're-educating' muslims in the north.
I don't really care how many members the communist party has, they act in typical dictatorial fashion. Why the heck did they have that Doctor arrested in the first place?. It's typical authoritarian control-freakery.

Yes, a dictator is one with over-arching control...ie the President, now almost a demi-god (for life). I think its a poor comparison with the Queen who is a figure head really.

Try and vote in China for an alternative to the communist party...oh, wait a minute.....

I think if anyone rocked up at a local police station claiming aliens are invading, they'd be told to bugger off....

Methinks you are being too lenient on an authoritarian country. Yes, they've got a wonderfully successful capitalist economy. But that's because they realised with communism going down the pan elsewhere years ago, Marxist economics were sh*te so they changed.

But they still retain communist authoritarian control. I have no fear of being spied on, just not giving them my money.

 

[Salty seadog]

They are owned by the communist party who aren't exactly known for tolerating dissent. Plus they're 're-educating' muslims in the north.
I don't really care how many members the communist party has, they act in typical dictatorial fashion. Why the heck did they have that Doctor arrested in the first place?. It's typical authoritarian control-freakery.

Yes, a dictator is one with over-arching control...ie the President, now almost a demi-god (for life). I think its a poor comparison with the Queen who is a figure head really.

Try and vote in China for an alternative to the communist party...oh, wait a minute.....

I think if anyone rocked up at a local police station claiming aliens are invading, they'd be told to bugger off....

Methinks you are being too lenient on an authoritarian country. Yes, they've got a wonderfully successful capitalist economy. But that's because they realised with communism going down the pan elsewhere years ago, Marxist economics were sh*te so they changed.

But they still retain communist authoritarian control. I have no fear of being spied on, just not giving them my money.

Is a slightly hybrid dictatorship now isn't it. Dictatorship no doubt. Isn't there a deal between the communist party of China and its people that they can benefit from what are 'Western freedoms' as long as the population remains subservient to the party.

 

[Electric_Andy]

I'm a bit confused with this thread now (as is started a while ago). Is it "safe" yet to buy a Huawei phone? A few months ago it was all about the supposed spyware. I might need a new phone soon and don't want to pay top whack for another Samsung Galaxy, but I'd be using it for online banking etc. Is there any more risk than any other brand of phone? I know facebook and google etc collect all my data anyway so my uninformed thought would initially be "can't be any worse than any other smartphone"?

 

[Salty seadog]

I'm a bit confused with this thread now (as is started a while ago). Is it "safe" yet to buy a Huawei phone? A few months ago it was all about the supposed spyware. I might need a new phone soon and don't want to pay top whack for another Samsung Galaxy, but I'd be using it for online banking etc. Is there any more risk than any other brand of phone? I know facebook and google etc collect all my data anyway so my uninformed thought would initially be "can't be any worse than any other smartphone"?

Dig a deep hole.

 

[ColinJ]

I'm a bit confused with this thread now (as is started a while ago). Is it "safe" yet to buy a Huawei phone? A few months ago it was all about the supposed spyware. I might need a new phone soon and don't want to pay top whack for another Samsung Galaxy, but I'd be using it for online banking etc. Is there any more risk than any other brand of phone? I know facebook and google etc collect all my data anyway so my uninformed thought would initially be "can't be any worse than any other smartphone"?

THIS article seems to be keeping up to date with developments and explains what it all means to Huawei owners.

 

[Drago]

I was having a chat with a pal about such matters a few years back. I told him that I believed that GCHQ (and probably the NSA?) were monitoring all/most telephone conversations. He laughed and asked how many millions of people they employed to listen in to those conversations. I switched my smartphone on and asked "What is a keyword?" Google robo-woman replied "This is the definition of keyword: a word or concept of great significance." I laughed back at him...

That's pretty much how ECHELON works. We can't legally spy on our own citizens, so all the other members of FIVE EYES use ECHELON to spy on then on our behalf, and vice versa.