Hub v Mid (crank drive) anyone tried both ?

[kingrollo]

After a recent HA - I purchased a decathlon road e bike with the X35 hub motor .

Living in a reasonably hilly area it's been great for giving me the confidence to go out cycling again.

I got it at a quite reasonable £1900 - I am finding a few limitations.

1.) Weight - for one of the lighter e bikes it seems incredibly heavy .

2.) Drag - maybe as a result of 1 above on the flat I struggle to get any momentum

3.) SRAM 1x - when descending I spin out and can't pedal no more - even in the hardest gear - this effects my speed on descents and overall drag.


With retirement looming - and a reminder that the grim reaper has marked my card - I'm thinking about blowing a serious wedge on a mid motor e road bike - but given these are heavier or comparable would it really be any better ?

 

[raleighnut]

Front or rear hub ?

 

[diplodicus]

I'm afraid I have nothing helpfull to add, but I am interested in any replies.
I am hoping we will purchase an e-bike for my wife in the near future

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

My first ebike (in 2011) was a user Powacycle - rear hub drive and only 180W

second was a Carrera cross city e - which had a rear hub drive and up to modern standards - Bafang drive
and feels much more powerful but does kinda kick in and keep going
I then got a Raleigh Array which - before I returned it (Raleigh were excellent) due to battery problems - and also had a rear drive but a bit smoother and more sophisticated


My current one is a Raleigh Motus and has a Bosch mid-drive and is way smoother in terms of power delivery and how it helps out

I normally run in Eco mode and unless you listen to the motor noise then you often can't tell if the motor is switched on or not except by the power you need to get up a hill
I have even switched it off on a narrow path as it is easier to keep the speed at walking speed and stay behind walkers

then 10 miles later got home and realised I had forgotten to switch it back on


I am sure there are smoother expensive rear drive systems around
but based on the 4 I have owned the mid drive is more sensitive and smoother
the variation in power as I pedal is also more varied - and it does not give more power suddenly at any point

 

[rualexander]

1.) What weight is it?

2.) On the flat, a kg or two won't be that much of an issue.

3.) Why do you need to pedal downhill faster than 30MPH? The motor will be disengaged at that speed anyway so it will just be like any other 1x bike.

 

[teeonethousand]

I thought I heard also that mid drive react to crank and so help straight away from start on hill whereas hub react to wheel turn and you need to get it turning before assistance comes in.

 

[Drago]

I thought I heard also that mid drive react to crank and so help straight away from start on hill whereas hub react to wheel turn and you need to get it turning before assistance comes in.

There is no inherent technical difference between the two aside from placement.

Unless you're going properly off road and want the mass centralised to aid handling, its doesnt really matter if you have mid or rear drive. Rear drive will handle trails just fine, and mid comes its own for really gnarly stuff or where rear suspension is fitted.

The only meaningful differences are down to manufacturers spec and design rather than any inherent benefit or otherwise of the motors location.

I've owned one of each and other than the rear drive being a bit more torquey (which was down to the spec, not is placement) it made no difference whatsoever where the motor was located.

 

[kingrollo]

1.) What weight is it?

2.) On the flat, a kg or two won't be that much of an issue.

3.) Why do you need to pedal downhill faster than 30MPH? The motor will be disengaged at that speed anyway so it will just be like any other 1x bike.

Disagree with all that. I've always noticed the difference between my carbon and alu bikes . 3 or 4 kg is massive

Want to pedal down hill to go faster

 

[rualexander]

There is said to be more drivetrain wear from a mid drive?
The Mahle X35 doesn't (or certainly didn't used to) use a torque sensor so doesn't react proportionally to input force.
The lightest ebike system at the moment seems to be the TQ mid drive.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

As an owner of a similar X35 gravel ebike since April, where my weight has dropped from approx 96Kg to 92Kg...

1: Both our ebikes are ~15Kg as supplied, without fitting mudguards, lights, bottles etc. My normal road bike is ~8.5Kg, so it's a lot heavier, but light compared to many ebikes that weigh closer to 25Kg.

2: My gravel ebike setup sets me higher and puts my hands wider, while the tyres are 35/40mm Marathon Supremes instead of 25/32mm GP5000s. More aero drag, more rolling resistance. Plus in my case, approx 110-115Kg total is much harder work on inclines than when the total was approx 93Kg and I was a lot fitter.
You also get that weird drag feeling on ebikes when you reduce motor assistance or it cuts out at ~15.5mph, you get used to having the motor help. Last week I used my turbo instead of the ebike and when I got outside on the ebike, eco mode 75W felt a huge help.

3: My GT is 2x, but it's a sub compact 30/48 currently combined with 11-34 cassette. I've regularly ran out of gears descending hills too, as the extra total weight overrides aero drag.

I've taken mid drive Ridgeback and Specialized hire mountain ebikes off campus while staying at Longleat Center Parcs in the last year or so, the motors feel stronger, but the ebikes are ~10Kg heavier and I much prefer my GT because of the weight; the position and how I possibly get a bit more of a workout when in turbo mode climbing hills around my threshold.

 

[rualexander]

Want to pedal down hill to go faster

Faster than around 30MPH?
Fair enough, but your ebike motor will cut out at 15MPH.
So your only solution is bigger chainring or convert to 2x.

 

[CXRAndy]

After a recent HA - I purchased a decathlon road e bike with the X35 hub motor .

Living in a reasonably hilly area it's been great for giving me the confidence to go out cycling again.

I got it at a quite reasonable £1900 - I am finding a few limitations.

1.) Weight - for one of the lighter e bikes it seems incredibly heavy .

2.) Drag - maybe as a result of 1 above on the flat I struggle to get any momentum

3.) SRAM 1x - when descending I spin out and can't pedal no more - even in the hardest gear - this effects my speed on descents and overall drag.


With retirement looming - and a reminder that the grim reaper has marked my card - I'm thinking about blowing a serious wedge on a mid motor e road bike - but given these are heavier or comparable would it really be any better ?

Several ways to go, I prefer crank based motors with torque sensing.

I also prefer to build my ebike. There are some really excellent motors and batteries which are far superior than branded makes.

I just paid £500 pound for a Tongscheng motor and 900Watthr rack mounted battery.

The motor will pretty much fit any 68/73mm threaded bottom bracket framed bike.

There is no proprietary software or makes of battery or specific charger required, mix and match to your requirements

If you already have a suitable bike, quids in.

Plus you can transfer motorbattery to other bikes in future

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I thought I heard also that mid drive react to crank and so help straight away from start on hill whereas hub react to wheel turn and you need to get it turning before assistance comes in.

On mine - and there are more clever hub drives than I had - I find that the crank drive doesn;t kick in immediately
I think it sees the slow crank speed when I start and thinks "Nah - I'm not needed"
but then cuts in once the crank speed build up a little bit

the hub drive does the same with wheel speed but does it in a more sudden manner rather than increasing slowly
but if I have stopped ona damn steep hill and want to try to get going fast enough to not fall off then the sudden increase is actually more useful than a nice gradual build up

Certainly the first bike - which was a LONG time ago in ebike terms was a sort of "all or nothing" motor but later ones look at what is happening better and react better
and I presume the more you pay the more "cleverness" you get

 

[Mike Ayling]

After a recent HA - I purchased a decathlon road e bike with the X35 hub motor .

Living in a reasonably hilly area it's been great for giving me the confidence to go out cycling again.

I got it at a quite reasonable £1900 - I am finding a few limitations.

1.) Weight - for one of the lighter e bikes it seems incredibly heavy .

2.) Drag - maybe as a result of 1 above on the flat I struggle to get any momentum

3.) SRAM 1x - when descending I spin out and can't pedal no more - even in the hardest gear - this effects my speed on descents and overall drag.


With retirement looming - and a reminder that the grim reaper has marked my card - I'm thinking about blowing a serious wedge on a mid motor e road bike - but given these are heavier or comparable would it really be any better ?

Weight and drag, normal ebike character;istics,

Going fast downhills, a double crankset might help but difficult /maybe not possible with a mid motor.

If you need e-assist you will have to put up with the down side items.

 

[CXRAndy]

All the gains made going faster uphills with having an ebike won't be caught by going that bit quicker downhill.

Eg

Many years ago I was cycling in Tenerife. We had a 7-10 min climb out of the resort before the road went downhill for a couple of miles. We were overtaken by an old bloke with an ebike and pizza box on the back. It took us miles to catch up, just before the next hill, where he just sailed away again