Illegal e-bikes for sale ?

[Alex321]

Well https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules disagrees with you.
Particularly:

View attachment 808716

If you think they're wrong, drop them a message using their feedback form 👍

Can you point out where they have said anything about what an "E-bike" is?

No?

So they don't disagree with me.

they are using the correct term for what we would call a legal e-bike, namely EAPC.

 

[Alex321]

It literally does, I mean, you can read the words and everything 😂

No, it doesn't. Perhaps YOU should try that "read the words".

The word "e-bike" is nowhere in that page.

 

[Alex321]

Is an ebike still an ebike and not a pushbike if the motor is switched off??
and does an EPAC change category when it goes over 15.5 mph???

or am I being over pedantic

You are, but pedantically, once an EAPC (please stop calling it EPAC) goes over the cut off threshold, it is arguably just a pedal cycle.

 

[Alex321]

No need to be a dick. Take it up with the Gubment if you disagree with their wording.

I don't think either of us are disagreeing with the government wording.

We are disagreeing that it says what you seem to think it does.

The word "e-bike" in normal usage (and according to the dictionary definition above) covers everything from a legal EAPC up to a fully registered taxed and insured electric motorbike, plus the illegal ones in between.

There is nothing in that government page which contradicts that.

 

[UglyWithaSidePart]

I don't think either of us are disagreeing with the government wording.

We are disagreeing that it says what you seem to think it does.

The word "e-bike" in normal usage (and according to the dictionary definition above) covers everything from a legal EAPC up to a fully registered taxed and insured electric motorbike, plus the illegal ones in between.

There is nothing in that government page which contradicts that.

Disagree, which is fine.
An e-bike is a world apart from an electric motorcycle.
I could call my bike an elephant, but it would still be a bike 😂

Enough of this frivolity, you're all wrong 😜

 

[Bristolian]

Dictionary definition of ebike
a bicycle with an electric motor that helps to move the bicycle forward even when the rider is not turning the pedals, also often used to refer to any bicycle with an electric motor, including those where you must turn the pedals:

which is closer to how it is used by "the people"

The problem with legality and language is that language changes quite quickly over time
and also the same word in the same language means different thing sin different place
often even in the same country


Legal definition tends to be fixed for a long time - until changed

we seem to be getting to a situation where the media is starting to use "illegal electric motorbike" rather than using ebike for everything and lumping them all in together

but the language people use will take a long time to change as it is fixed in people's minds

Since when did a dictionary definition trump what is written in Government Regulations and Standards? Irrespective of what the great unwashed call something the definition given in law is what the definition is. The police, at least, should adhere to that.

There are many laws written centuries ago that have not changed over time but are still the law. The Offences Against The Person Act of 1861 is one such law and that is the one used to prosecute cyclists for wanton and furious driving.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Since when did a dictionary definition trump what is written in Government Regulations and Standards? Irrespective of what the great unwashed call something the definition given in law is what the definition is. The police, at least, should adhere to that.

There are many laws written centuries ago that have not changed over time but are still the law. The Offences Against The Person Act of 1861 is one such law and that is the one used to prosecute cyclists for wanton and furious driving.

The legal definition is what matters in law

the way the word is used in other places is often different

I think someone mentioned that the word ebike is not mentioned in the legal documents

I have just looked a bit and it says EAPC and electric bike

but not ebike
some people lump anything with 2 wheels and an electric motor into ebike
from EAPC right up to proper motorcycles that happen to have a electric motor

The problem is the dividing line between electric bicycle and electric motorcycle

and that line varies depending on who you talk to

 

[Alex321]

Since when did a dictionary definition trump what is written in Government Regulations and Standards? Irrespective of what the great unwashed call something the definition given in law is what the definition is. The police, at least, should adhere to that.

Correct but irrelevant, since the law doesn't use the term ebike at all. It is not defined by the law.

There are many laws written centuries ago that have not changed over time but are still the law. The Offences Against The Person Act of 1861 is one such law and that is the one used to prosecute cyclists for wanton and furious driving.

Not any more it isn't, since there are now specific offences in the Road Traffic Act for Dangerous Cycling (s28), and Careless or inconsiderate cycling (s29).

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Not any more it isn't, since there are now specific offences in the Road Traffic Act for Dangerous Cycling (s28), and Careless or inconsiderate cycling (s29).

When an incident results in someone being killed or seriously injured, those RTA offences are sometimes considered insufficient and the cyclist is still charged under the 1861 act instead.

Sections 28 and 29 of the 1988 act only allow for a financial penalty, whereas the 1861 act allows imprisonment for up to two years.

Charlie Alliston's case is one everybody will remember but there have been more recent cases.