Importance of gearing range

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dimrub

dimrub

Senior Member
So, I ordered the 38t chainwheel already, but then a thought has been had: what if I play with the other side of the equation? Namely, a wider ranged cassette? So mine is 10/42, but there are 11/50t monsters out there that would give me the covetted 1:0.84 ratio with my current 42t chainwheel, without sacrificing the range - at a cost of a slightly wider spacing between the gears. Seems fine by me. What do you folks think?

Here's an article about the merits of the 1x setup on a touring bike. Thoughts?

And if some of you are convinced, do you know of a steel dropbar bike with mechanically actuated hydraulic brakes that runs such a cassette? I'm thinking of following @HobbesOnTour advice and sourcing a bike abroad, instead of just locking in on Kona Sutra, which is 2x.
 

chriswoody

Legendary Member
Location
Northern Germany
The problem with the wider cassette is the capicity of your derailleur. Basically only Mountain bike derailleurs will cope with a 50tooth cog. The maximum size rear cog your existing derailleur will cope with is 42.

Unfortunately at 11 &12 speed, Mountain bike derailleurs won't work with drop bar shifters off the shelf. In order to make drop bar shifters work with MTB derailleurs you need to do a bit of bodgery and enter the realm of mullet set ups.

I was pondering it myself on my SRAM rival set up, but my afore mentioned solution, of just swapping in a 28 tooth chainring, for touring, is so cheap and affective, that I really don't need to go down the mullet route.

I was also slightly curious, why the aversion to hydraulic brakes as well? I've found them to be faultless and brilliant over many off-road tours. I really wouldn't contemplate a bike without them now.
 
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dimrub

dimrub

Senior Member
I was also slightly curious, why the aversion to hydraulic brakes as well? I've found them to be faultless and brilliant over many off-road tours. I really wouldn't contemplate a bike without them now.

That's due to the need to sometimes deal with air getting into the system (i.e., bleeding). This spring in France (France!) it took us 2 days and 4 bicycle shops to find someone who could bleed the brakes on my son's bike. I imagine things could be even worse in the less advanced locales. Hydraulic brakes with mechanical actuation, like those on a Sutra, seems like the perfect balance between power and precision on the one hand - and low maintenance on the other.
 

chriswoody

Legendary Member
Location
Northern Germany
That's due to the need to sometimes deal with air getting into the system (i.e., bleeding). This spring in France (France!) it took us 2 days and 4 bicycle shops to find someone who could bleed the brakes on my son's bike. I imagine things could be even worse in the less advanced locales. Hydraulic brakes with mechanical actuation, like those on a Sutra, seems like the perfect balance between power and precision on the one hand - and low maintenance on the other.

Fair enough, with SRAM brakes, I need to bleed them once a year and will always do that myself in the winter so the bikes are set up ready for the year ahead. I'd hate to have to find a bike shop I'd trust to do it, especially in a country where I didn't live. Shimano are better though and generally you can get away with longer intervals.
 

Jenkins

Legendary Member
Location
Felixstowe
So, I ordered the 38t chainwheel already, but then a thought has been had: what if I play with the other side of the equation? Namely, a wider ranged cassette? So mine is 10/42, but there are 11/50t monsters out there that would give me the covetted 1:0.84 ratio with my current 42t chainwheel, without sacrificing the range - at a cost of a slightly wider spacing between the gears. Seems fine by me. What do you folks think?
I think you'd also need a new freehub for the wheel as cassettes with a 10t smallest gear use a different design to the cassettes with the 11t (and higher) smallest gear - XD instead of HG in SRAMs case and Microspline instead of HG for Shimano
 

Alex321

Veteran
Location
South Wales
That's due to the need to sometimes deal with air getting into the system (i.e., bleeding). This spring in France (France!) it took us 2 days and 4 bicycle shops to find someone who could bleed the brakes on my son's bike. I imagine things could be even worse in the less advanced locales. Hydraulic brakes with mechanical actuation, like those on a Sutra, seems like the perfect balance between power and precision on the one hand - and low maintenance on the other.

You very rarely have to bleed them IME.

The only time the brakes have been bled on my 2 year old Cube (which has done nearly 8000 miles) was when the left hand lever needed replacing.
 
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dimrub

dimrub

Senior Member
You very rarely have to bleed them IME.

The only time the brakes have been bled on my 2 year old Cube (which has done nearly 8000 miles) was when the left hand lever needed replacing.

Yes, that corresponds to my experience. On my bike I never needed to bleed the brakes, and I've had it for quite some years. I think something went awry during the transportation, but then, it something that could happen again, so seems reasonable to take measures to reduce this risk.
 
Location
España
I'm thinking of following @HobbesOnTour advice and sourcing a bike abroad

My boring and dull suggestion would be to go right back to basics and build your bike in your mind and on paper.

You've got a bike, got some touring experience so the process should start there: what you like, what would you change? - therefore what do you want the new one to have, bearing in mind what you have learned and where you intend to go.

In my case I started with material. That was easy - steel.
Then wheels. That was straightforward too. 26 inch for several reasons.
Gearing? I wanted the simplest option to give me the easiest gears.
And so on.

Only when I knew what I wanted did I go investigating what was out there.

It's not a sexy process. It might seem boring but I found it far from it. Frustrating at times too. However, in the long run well made decisions can be very rewarding.

My musings led to a bike that was neither new nor sexy but he's done alright!

I read the ACA article you mentioned. Like a lot of their content it reads like a sales piece rather than impartial advice.

@chriswoody has highlighted an example the complexities of bike components, the difference between theory and practice. These are the kinds of things that are useful to be aware of.

However, (and this goes for lots of things) one person's experience is only useful if you intend using the bike in the same way as they use theirs. Comments on a bike used once or twice a week are less useful to someone contemplating a multi month tour of daily use.

One factor, specific to your use, is plane travel. It's a long time since I read anything on this, but my understanding is that closed systems (brakes and gearing) can have issues with air travel.

In the same vein, I think it's an idea to remember that a bike on tour is subjected to different conditions and treatment than it might receive at home.

If I was in your shoes, I'd also dedicate a little time to my wife and put some energy into convincing her of the need for a commuter and an adventure bike ^_^. It makes the process a bit more streamlined.

Finally, and I'm probably in a minority of one on this, but there's also a "head" element to these things.
No bike is going to be perfect in every situation, on every surface. At home, some people have lots of bikes for different uses. On tour, most of us don't have that luxury. Therefore we have to make the most of what we have and sometimes forgive the bike (and ourselves) for the decisions we have made.
Some of the happiest people I have met on the road have the most unsuitable bikes (according to experts) and some of the most stressed and unhappy people I've met have the best of equipment.
Heresy perhaps on a cycling forum, but the bike is just a tool that lets us do things and go places. Being able to use that tool optimally requires skills too. Best not to neglect them while optimising the equipment.

Good luck!
 
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dimrub

dimrub

Senior Member
@HobbesOnTour , absolutely, gathering requirements is how I approach any project (force of habit), so a choice of bike is no exception. In my case, the reasoning was:

- Frame: steel (for the reasons voiced above)
- Wheels: 28" - I think at this point this is the de-facto standard for gravel, so seems like the easiest thing to source while on the road, at least in Europe.
- Tires - 40mm - something like Schwalbe Marathon Mondial, or maybe G-one bite, tubeless.
- Drivetrain - whatever will give me that ~600% range and that ~1:0.8 ratio at the lower end, with slight preference for 1x (due to simplicity).
- Brakes - definitely disc, as for whether mechanic or hydraulic - as per above, I think that trick of hydraulic which are cable-actuated seems like a good solution.
- Drop bar, due to the variety of positions available, and also it feels pretty natural to me at this point (if not, I'd have tried a butterfly handlebar).
- Pedals - flat, aluminium (the pair I have is fine)
- Seat - Brooks (again, the one I already have)
- Racks back and front for panniers.

Looking through quite a few ratings of top touring bikes, this looks like a pretty common setup, and Kona Sutra seems to be pretty high up there in most, answering almost all of the above, so seems like a reasonable option. I thought I had one set aside for me, but no, it was sold today, so I'm ordering one for myself tomorrow, and will ask the shop to replace the lower chainring (30t) to 26t, which will make this into a seemingly perfect bike for my reqs.

To complete the story, I'm thinking of not bothering with a dinamo - I have a 30,000 mAh power bank and another smaller one so charging up is the way to go. In terms of storage, 2 sets of paniers back (Ortlieb) and front (not sure yet), handlebar bag - my trusty Ortlieb, and as many water bottles as I can put on the frame, also frame bag, top tube bags front and back, and a snack back on the handlebar. In terms of electronics, it's front and back lights I recently got from Aliexpress (I've been using them for a while and they're fine), my Garmin Edge computer and a phone , and there we go.
 
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Location
España
Looking through quite a few ratings of top touring bikes
I have no idea what a touring bike is! ^_^
Never mind a top one!

something like Schwalbe Marathon Mondial,
I'm not a fan of the Mondials. Two, bought separately, ended life prematurely due to weak sidewalls. I don't think I'm alone in this.
I have a 30,000 mAh power bank and another smaller one
30k is big and heavy. On a long trip I'd always suggest two smaller ones for redundancy and flexibility.
Remember also that their capacity and efficiency declines over time.
it's front and back lights I recently got from Aliexpress
I know that Germany, at least, has rules (enforced) on bike lights. Something to bear in mind, although a typical, loaded bike tourist is hardly likely to have the usage to draw much attention.
so I'm ordering one for myself tomorrow
That's quick!

Best of luck with it!
 
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dimrub

dimrub

Senior Member
I'm not a fan of the Mondials. Two, bought separately, ended life prematurely due to weak sidewalls. I don't think I'm alone in this.

A good point. I'm going to get a pair of marathon plus tours as a present of sorts, will probably put the on at once. These seem to have a good reputation.

30k is big and heavy. On a long trip I'd always suggest two smaller ones for redundancy and flexibility.
Remember also that their capacity and efficiency declines over time.

Another fine point. Yes, I have a smaller one too, and a phone holder that also doubles up as a battery, so plenty of backups.

Best of luck with it!

Thanks! I'm very excited about it!
 
Location
España
That's a tough question. I couldn't find a ready to use answer, so I counted them. 32, both front and back.

I really don't want to be Señor Negativo with your new bike, but given your expected load I'd give serious thought to upgrading to 36.

If this bike is to be your commuter and tourer, a compromise, of sorts, exists - two sets of wheels. One lighter with appropriate tyres for the commute and a second, more robust set for touring. (I did that)

It may be worthwhile considering a dynohub for the commuter set if darkness is common.

Sorry! Something was bugging me about the specs so I went back today and couldn't find a mention of spokecount anywhere.
 
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dimrub

dimrub

Senior Member
I really don't want to be Señor Negativo with your new bike, but given your expected load I'd give serious thought to upgrading to 36.

If this bike is to be your commuter and tourer, a compromise, of sorts, exists - two sets of wheels. One lighter with appropriate tyres for the commute and a second, more robust set for touring. (I did that)

It may be worthwhile considering a dynohub for the commuter set if darkness is common.

Sorry! Something was bugging me about the specs so I went back today and couldn't find a mention of spokecount anywhere.

An interesting point. From a not very thorough examination of the topic, the other common number of spokes which is above 32 is 36. Does that make that much of a difference? I'm thinking of handling this by reducing the overall weight of rider + luggage, by focusing on the rider (there's a lot of potential for a reduction there).

All jokes aside, thanks for bringing this up, this is something I haven't considered at all so far.
 
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