IMPORTANT - Disturbing incident in W12 yesterday afternoon

[PedalCat]

Sounds like he is unstable and ill-informed (he said you shouldn't be on the road). Bad combination. Report the incident. An aggressive coward/bully who intimidates cyclists from the safety of a car really should be dealt with.

 

[dawesome]

You might feel you're making a fuss over nothing if you report it and ask if the cctv can be checked to catch someone using half a ton of metal as a weapon against vulnerable road users. You might feel a bit ashamed and as if you are time-wasting.

But how would you feel if you don't report it, then read a report of a vehicle and driver that matches your description involved in a fatality?

 

[subaqua]

yup if you don't do it for yourself, do it for others.

 

[Drago]

The whole point is that the Data Protection Act only allows the dibble to check other peoples CCTV for the purposes of prevention or detection of crime. Looking for a fat chump with a possible lobotomy scar doesn't give them a lawful reason.

I'd still report it, cos you never know the chap might be wanted as part of a crime enquiry elsewhere, but this incident alone gives dibble no powers to go round reviewing people's CCTV.

 

[subaqua]

The whole point is that the Data Protection Act only allows the dibble to check other peoples CCTV for the purposes of prevention or detection of crime. Looking for a fat chump with a possible lobotomy scar doesn't give them a lawful reason.

I'd still report it, cos you never know the chap might be wanted as part of a crime enquiry elsewhere, but this incident alone gives dibble no powers to go round reviewing people's CCTV.

Harrasment , Alarm or Distress
The offence is created by section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986:
"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:
(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting
would cover it nicely i think . based on the info given so far

 

[dawesome]

TUESDAY, 24 JULY 2012

Levi Rayner fined £37 for careless driving


Back in January I reported the driver of a yellow Suburu car, L464XDG, for careless driving and threats directed at me when I was cycling through Hounslow. I now know the driver to have been one Levi Rayner. He evaded interview by the police for a long while but when finally caught up with he admitted the threats and was duly cautioned. He denied careless driving but last week when he got to court decided to plead guilty. I have just learnt he was fined £37, with a victim surcharge of £15 and prosecution costs of £85 with 3 penalty points on his licence.

http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/

VERY NSFW language!

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEhMsS8xcDQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[Drago]

You'd never get an arrest for S5POA for that. Custody sergeant you kick you in the space hoppers.

It can't be "harassing" - you need a course of conduct, ie, two or more instances to tick that box.

Alarming or distressing - maybe, but is what is causing that alarm or distress itself liable to cause alarm it distress in a person of reasonable firmness? Offering an opinion about cyclists and what the future holds in store is a protected freedom of expression under the ECHR, higher law than the Publuc Order Act.

You got no writing, sign or other visible representation, so that angle isn't covered either.

The but driving too close to our Herod rear wheel is probably the one thing that *might* land him in trouble, but that's would be a motoring offence, not a crime.

And then there's case law...

So long as he didn't swear or overtly threaten an unlawful act then you ain't got S5POA. But then if he had been encroaching on the POA it would be a S4a crine, or S4 if it's directed at a particular person and it puts them in fear. S5 is only used where it isn't directed at a particular individual. Think "f***" for S5, "f**** you" for 4a, and "f*** off or I'll hit you" for 4.Then you got affray, violent disorder and riot above that, public nuisance etc below that.

If you want legal advice speak to a solicitor rather than read the crime definition.

 

[Drago]

Ps, forguve the iPhone chubby finger-itis. If I'd become a solicitor after my law degree instead if becoming a copper I could've afforded an iPad instead!

 

[CopperBrompton]

It sounds potentially dodgy enough to report on the 101 number or Roadsafe London website. As others have said, things could escalate from there, so better to report it so he at least gets a word in his ear.

 

[subaqua]

You'd never get an arrest for S5POA for that. Custody sergeant you kick you in the space hoppers.

It can't be "harassing" - you need a course of conduct, ie, two or more instances to tick that box.

Alarming or distressing - maybe, but is what is causing that alarm or distress itself liable to cause alarm it distress in a person of reasonable firmness? Offering an opinion about cyclists and what the future holds in store is a protected freedom of expression under the ECHR, higher law than the Publuc Order Act.

You got no writing, sign or other visible representation, so that angle isn't covered either.

The but driving too close to our Herod rear wheel is probably the one thing that *might* land him in trouble, but that's would be a motoring offence, not a crime.

And then there's case law...

So long as he didn't swear or overtly threaten an unlawful act then you ain't got S5POA. But then if he had been encroaching on the POA it would be a S4a crine, or S4 if it's directed at a particular person and it puts them in fear. S5 is only used where it isn't directed at a particular individual. Think "f***" for S5, "f**** you" for 4a, and "f*** off or I'll hit you" for 4.Then you got affray, violent disorder and riot above that, public nuisance etc below that.

If you want legal advice speak to a solicitor rather than read the crime definition.

aaahhh right i get the laws attitude. u can't say "f you" to a copper as he think people might be distressed by it , but its fine for muppetts in cars to give veiled threats to you . love your priorities

 

[Spooner]

OP, that is scary, but I'd do nothing about it at this stage. I know the roads you write of. I imagine you were crossing the south side of SBG heading west. It is a fraught bit of road for pedestrians, motorists and cyclists alike. Multi-lane, One-way and with road users trying to get into lane for the Goldhawk road or North or South options. Lots of lane markings and sometimes a bit of a race track. Harum-Scarum stuff.

It appears from your description that the car was to your rear and left. I try not to swerve in fast traffic, but I understand you were concerned for your safety. If you sweved away from him and he was on your left, then you moved right. If that was the lane you were in, that suggests that if he was on your left, he was initially in the lane to your nearside, rather than your lane. I don't get too concerned about cars coming close to me in the lane to my nearside. In London, it is a common thing.

It appears that you shouted at him before he shouted back. I tend not to shout in London traffic, but many find it helps. He may have been quite unaware that he was driving too close to you and just shouting something back in defensive ire. It does happen. I wasn't there, so I cannot say.

You did well to hear so much of his comments in his heavily accented English, shouted at you from a moving car in what you refer to as speeding traffic. You seem to have a pretty good grasp of both what he said and the meaning he intended to convey. He did well to get so much into the short distance along SBG.

You were there and I was not, but nothing you describe smacks of a clear intent to strike fear into another road user. Perhaps he was new to the UK and finding our traffic systems hard to master. Perhaps he was surprised to be shouted at.

The thing about having seen him do the same thing previously is a little odd from the reader's perspective. It's not clear whether you want to report him for what he did or for what you appear to perceive as the serial nature of his behaviour.

There are so many possibilities here that I'd take it as a potentially nasty confrontation avoided and learn some valuable lessons from it. Your recall seems to have been strong in some areas and utterly lacking in the vital ones. This is not uncommon when we're under stress, so it's no big deal.

Next time get the registration, the make and model of the car and the time.

Also, I'd try to avoid swerving every time a car comes too close to you while negotiating SBG on a bicycle in speeding traffic. You will end up dismounting painfully.

I'm sorry you had a shitty experience riding in West London. I'm glad nothing came of it and you weren't hurt.

In this instance, I'd do nothing.

 

[Spooner]

It is a bit of a scrum there but I'm a very experienced cyclist and always hold my line between the traffic from the roundabout travelling west down Shepherds Bush Green on to Goldhawk Road. I have had more than my fair share of run ins with drivers all over town over the years which are mainly down to driver error, stupidity or carelessness (sometimes mine!). I have no problem with this, it goes with the territory, my point was that this wasn't any of these. My exclamation consisted of a startled "HEY!" and no profanity.The main reason for this post was that there was no doubt in my mind he did know I was there, he did know what he was doing and his diatribe to me through his open window as he slowed down to drive alongside me seemed particularly, well, creepy to be honest and as I said I have seen him before provoke a similar situation to cyclist in front of me a year or so ago. It was because of this I wanted to find out if this was something he makes a habit of doing and whether anyone else had bumped into him (hopefully not literally).

It has shaken me a bit. I will be cycling back through there again tonight for the first time since Monday so hopefully this will exorcise a few ghosts and then I can just shrug it off just as we all do for other normal close shaves and scrapes.

I do appreciate the support you guys have given me here though. It made me feel a bit better even after I posted the message originally and made me feel like I wasn't out there on my own.

I feel without his reg though my complaint carries little weight so in this instance I will just put it down to bad luck.

Be careful out there all, and thanks.

Spoons

 

[Boris Bajic]

I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood or misinterpreted parts of your original post.

You are not the only one to have felt shaken by a traffic incident. It is unpleasant to have that uncomfortable shudder as you approach the scene the next time.

Getting out there and shrugging it off is a good way to go. Although easier now that there are traffic signals all the way round, that roundabout between HPA and SBG has always been slightly 'Rollerball' for cyclists and motorcyclists. The Green itself is little better.

I think you've made a good decision and I apologise again if I sounded slightly dubious, patronising or worse.

 

[Spooner]

I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood or misinterpreted parts of your original post.

You are not the only one to have felt shaken by a traffic incident. It is unpleasant to have that uncomfortable shudder as you approach the scene the next time.

Getting out there and shrugging it off is a good way to go. Although easier now that there are traffic signals all the way round, that roundabout between HPA and SBG has always been slightly 'Rollerball' for cyclists and motorcyclists. The Green itself is little better.

I think you've made a good decision and I apologise again if I sounded slightly dubious, patronising or worse.

You didnt sound any of those and I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me at all!

Thanks.