improving immunity

[Jonathan M]

I'm surprised at Jonathan M's generalisations. The hygiene hypothesis (first noted in Germany, a society that knows a thing or two about obsessive-compulsive cleanliness) refers to auto-immune illnesses, such as asthma, not day-to-day infections. An important distinction. If his conflating of the two were correct, older people would never get ill, would they? With their 60 years' worth of immune system reinforcement. Also, being in public health, he must be aware of the hand-washing protocols now so visibly in force, and the advice given to health professionals about staying infection free. Yes, it's "wash your hands, and don't put things in your mouth".

I never said that the hygiene hypothesis referred to anything but autoimmune conditions, and as for the disiticntion, the point in hand is that autoimmune conditions are on the increase (type 1 diabetes in the under 5 year old population in the last 25-30 years for example) and these increases cannot be accounted for through standard epidemiology - so therefore there are other factors in play which means that the immune system is triggered to react within the body. Many diabetes professionals subscribe to the hygiene hypothesis in association with genetic predisposition and viral triggers. But the hygiene hypothesis itself hasn't been proven, it remains a hypothesis, but one that has received some support from publsihed research in recent years. As far as illness in later life, how much is due to the "wear & tear" that occurs after 60 years, regardless of how a person has lived theire life? If aging didn't weaken the immune system then we'd all live forever.


Back to the OP. You seem happy that your situation isn't overtraining. The effects of exercise on the immune system are actually not clear. Lots of evidence that "moderate" exercise strengthens the immune system, equally lots of evidence that episodes of intense physical exercise can increase susceptibility to infection, especially in the immediate short term post exercise. Depending on what bloods your GP the results may not be clear cut as to whether there is a problem with the immune system - do you know what investigations were requested?



There you go, a response without resorting to the word bollocks to make a point.

 

[Steve Austin]

messing with someone else's bollocks is likely not to help matters

Keeping fit is a balance. you can't keep getting fitter without stretching your system. So you need to push yourself to the limit of your system whilst avoiding illness.
In my experience, the only way to do this is to keep your diet healthy, and avoid overtraining. You can't do anything about the 'normal' exposures to virus/infections, so do something about the risks you can manage.
Interesting as it is to read about exposure to germs and how this happens, its a red herring when thinking about fitness and training as its something none of us has any control over.

 

[Danny]

...I use the phrase "picking them up" deliberately. Cold virii will only survive a short time in open air but can survive for many hours on surfaces and in environments where air is recirculated. So washing hands, avoiding hand-mouth contact, avoiding public transport are EXACTLY the right things to do....

In response to Danny G's direct question about scientific evidence, link below - first result on a google search

http://www.flemingforum.org.uk/slides/handwashing.pdf

...GPs are unlikely to help unless you have a recognisable syndrome or illness. At the most, you'll be sent for blood tests and then told that the results are fine. His first response will probably be "Well, stop running then." You may get a more helpful response from a sports doctor, but that will probably have to be privately funded.

(This has probably wound me up so much as I am in day 4 of a killer cold that started on Xmas day, left me feverish for 2 days, and has wiped out our travel plans and left us sitting indoors all week. I'm not normally this grumpy)

OK - having read Twenty Inch's post I spent quite a while reading up on "cold prevention" and am happy to accept that cold viruses can be transmitted by touch. However I remain to be convinced that it is practical for most people to keep up the sort of hygiene regime that would be required to really reduce the risk of picking up infections.

Most people don't follow such a rigid regime and don't get colds every two weeks, which is why I still wonder whether ttcycle might have something else wrong.

 

[Danny]

Twenty Inch - what you said re the GP- very true; they have no idea why I am getting sick so frequently as blood tests always come back normal and other measures are very healthy and I think they've drawn a line under it as my leg is not about to drop off anyday soon.

Clearly you've been round the houses with your GP, and it sounds like your's has done more than most.

Although I am a massive sceptic when it comes to alternative medicine, I wonder whether you should consider seeing an acupuncturist. They would certainly claim to be able to treat problems such as your's, and I know quite a number of people who feel they have benefited from acupuncture.

As I say, I am a sceptic, but if I was in your position I would probably try it.

 

[another_dave_b]

I add 2-4 brazil nuts to my breakfast. They're rich in selenium, which I understand is good for your immune system.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

Another one here who would say echinacea is worth trying. I have used it in the past with a lot of success. Its no good taking it if you already have a cold, its not a cold cure. It seems to work best if your immune system is week. I took it a few years ago over November and December one winter and found the amount of colds I was getting dropped from three or four a year to perhaps one every twelve to eighteen months and it has remained at that level ever since. I would also agree with those who said keep well rested and eat well, it helps.

 

[BentMikey]

Another one here who would say echinacea is worth trying. I have used it in the past with a lot of success. Its no good taking it if you already have a cold, its not a cold cure. It seems to work best if your immune system is week. I took it a few years ago over November and December one winter and found the amount of colds I was getting dropped from three or four a year to perhaps one every twelve to eighteen months and it has remained at that level ever since. I would also agree with those who said keep well rested and eat well, it helps.

That seems to contradict the studies I've read, which indicate echinacea is only worth taking when you actually have a cold. It's supposed to be effective in reducing the severity/length of a cold, but not reduce your chances of catching one in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

That seems to contradict the studies I've read, which indicate echinacea is only worth taking when you actually have a cold. It's supposed to be effective in reducing the severity/length of a cold, but not reduce your chances of catching one in the first place.

I must admit I haven't read any of the studies. The post simply stated my experience with ehinacea. I did once try it when I had a cold and it had no effect at all.

 

[Jonathan M]

That seems to contradict the studies I've read, which indicate echinacea is only worth taking when you actually have a cold. It's supposed to be effective in reducing the severity/length of a cold, but not reduce your chances of catching one in the first place.

I've read the same, needs to start at onset of symtpoms IIRC? Same with zinc, that taking the larger doses cannot prevent a cold, but may shorten duration.

Equally though a honey &lemon drink, with no pahramceutical additions was recently discussed as being as effective os the over the counter symptom releif drinks available.

 

[BentMikey]

Placebo effect for dave r? I'm not knocking it, whatever works.

 

[ttcycle]

Some interesting suggestions - have tried echinacea but didn't find it very helpful at preventing colds and lowering duration of illness.

Used to have acupunture for stress relief but haven't tried it in relation to immunity-may give that a shot.

In relation to the diet -my breakfast already contains brazil nuts, I take a zinc and high dose vit C supplement and eat lots of veg, including the leafy green variety!!

Good to see some debate on what I thought was a straightforward-ish topic!!
Thanks for all the input.

 

[Euan Uzami]

dont' ever take ANY (prescription) drugs,. EVER.
esp. antibiotics.

 

[Jonathan M]

dont' ever take ANY (prescription) drugs,. EVER.
esp. antibiotics.

Could be as contentious as the avoiding illness part of this thread!

 

[Deleted member 1258]

Placebo effect for dave r? I'm not knocking it, whatever works.

It worked that was the important bit, still rare for me to have a cold, just get the odd one here and there. Thinking about it must have been ten years ago or more when I used it. I am sure at that time it was considered a preventative not a cure, thats why I tried it. They must have done more research into it since then and changed what they think about it.

 

[Twenty Inch]

There you go, a response without resorting to the word bollocks to make a point.

But you did!