In court over driving w/o due care.

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BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
User259iroloboy said:
These abominations will only ever work if they are constant,( i.e. form a proper network of unbroken lanes that are clearly marked and kept clear of vehicles and broken glass). The ones around here lead you to kerb edges, suddenly stop, have cars parking on them, to be frank, the ones around here are mostly useless for all of the above reasons.

Even then they don't work mate. Your view of a perfect execution zone [1] still doesn't fix the major safety problems of junctions, passengers leaping out, or that it's the wrong place to be on a bike on the road.

[1] Lorry driver's name for a painted on-road cycle lane in an article on movingtargetzine.
 
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OP
Disgruntled Goat

Disgruntled Goat

New Member
domtyler said:
I'm not suggesting anything I was asking a question. Just trying to look at it from the drivers position and that of his brief.

If it were me I would try and argue that you must have been undertaking at speed at the time and I hadn't seen you in the mirror, you just 'came out of nowhere'.

From the Cyclist's Defence Fund Website (a v.useful site)

Thankfully the fact that there is likely to be two wheeled traffic travelling along the nearside of a queue of traffic either in a cycle lane or otherwise and that a motorist should take extra care has recently been recognised in Fagan V (1) Jeffers (2) MIB (2005) where the Court found that a motorist had to proceed with utmost care and not cross the carriageway until he had put himself in a position where he was satisfied that no traffic was likely to come up on the inside of the opposing carriageway.


It is possible that he could claim I was going too fast but

1) It would be unlikely that I was exceeding the 30mph speed limit
2) There are a number of parked cars on the road that would prevent me from getting to a high speed.
3) The road was on an incline, another reason aginst me reaching a high speed.

I was also wearing a bright red cycle shirt and a white helmet. It was also broad, bright daylight.

BTW, Did you know that some drivers claim that the cyclist is culpable if he didn't wear a helmet? Outrageous
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
The driver will have been advised to plead not guilty - and will most likely chicken out by the time they have got to court.

If the driver just turned left, no indicating, no time for you to slow down within your lane, then it's up for the court to argue the point - all I'd say, is be really calm if cross examined and be very detailed about your description of what happened - take notes.

This is normal in car to car shunts, until the insurance company says..bugger it....

Do you have third party insurance - i.e. British Cycling or CTC..... recommended if you ride a bike a lot....... trust me...

They helped me years back with a motorist that pulled out from a side road, I moved out to go round, then the driver drove into the side of me as she was looking the other way - I was doing 25mph at the time..... not much damage other than a bent seat stay, but it cost a few quid to get it straightened and repainted...steel not carbon eh.....
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
highway code says you can undertake slow moving traffic legally

it also says a lot about manouvres and other road users

unless you're being quiet about something lary, you're fine
 

domtyler

Über Member
Disgruntled Goat said:
From the Cyclist's Defence Fund Website (a v.useful site)

Thankfully the fact that there is likely to be two wheeled traffic travelling along the nearside of a queue of traffic either in a cycle lane or otherwise and that a motorist should take extra care has recently been recognised in Fagan V (1) Jeffers (2) MIB (2005) where the Court found that a motorist had to proceed with utmost care and not cross the carriageway until he had put himself in a position where he was satisfied that no traffic was likely to come up on the inside of the opposing carriageway.


It is possible that he could claim I was going too fast but

1) It would be unlikely that I was exceeding the 30mph speed limit
2) There are a number of parked cars on the road that would prevent me from getting to a high speed.
3) The road was on an incline, another reason aginst me reaching a high speed.

I was also wearing a bright red cycle shirt and a white helmet. It was also broad, bright daylight.

BTW, Did you know that some drivers claim that the cyclist is culpable if he didn't wear a helmet? Outrageous

That's interesting, I haven't really spent much time over at that web site so will have to check it out.

Sounds like you should win doesn't it? Good luck. ;)
 
Disgruntled Goat said:
That is very gracious of you Dom, thank you.


I've come to this late, but Dom has nailed the point. It derives from the principle that undertaking does not apply to traffic in lanes, because obviously sometimes the inner lane will be travelling faster. If you were in a cycle lane (no matter how crappily designated by the council) then the principle will apply. The motorist should have spotted the lane and allowed for you, which is precisely the point of the case cited by Dom.

<Patrick finds it difficult to be serious for long>

Stick to your guns - turn up in court in a smart suit with the Daily Mail sticking out of your pocket. With any luck the motorist will get life. ;)
 
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Disgruntled Goat

Disgruntled Goat

New Member
I wasn't in a cycle lane, but as the Cycling Defence Fund piece shows, it doesn't matter - the onus is on the driver to take utmost care.

I scrub up well, I will just have to guard against wanting to tear his brief a new peanut.

Must repeat *Not on Cyclechat now, not on Cyclechat now..."
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Disgruntled Goat said:
BTW, Did you know that some drivers claim that the cyclist is culpable if he didn't wear a helmet? Outrageous

Some insurance companies tried this one on a couple of times, but no longer do so after being faced down.

Good luck mate!!
 

HJ

Cycling in Scotland
Location
Auld Reekie
domtyler said:
Don't know what the law says but while filtering down the left in a cycle lane are you still not technically undertaking?


I think there relevant rules from the Highway Code on this one are

Rule 133

If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

Rule 140

Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable.

Rule 151

In slow-moving traffic. You should

* reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow
* never get so close to the vehicle in front that you cannot stop safely
* leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past
* not change lanes to the left to overtake
* allow access into and from side roads, as blocking these will add to congestion
* be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side

my bold, hope this helps...
 

HJ

Cycling in Scotland
Location
Auld Reekie
Tynan said:
highway code says you can undertake slow moving traffic legally

it also says a lot about manouvres and other road users

unless you're being quiet about something lary, you're fine

I think you mean

HC Rule 163

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

* not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
* use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
* not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
* move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in

* Give vulnerable road users at least as much space as you would a car

* take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
* give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
* only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
* give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)

Remember: Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre

So there we have it...
 
Disgruntled Goat said:
I wasn't in a cycle lane, but as the Cycling Defence Fund piece shows, it doesn't matter - the onus is on the driver to take utmost care.

I scrub up well, I will just have to guard against wanting to tear his brief a new peanut.

Must repeat *Not on Cyclechat now, not on Cyclechat now..."

There is a tendency among motorists who've clobbered a cyclist to justify it in their statements with something like, "When I saw him afterwards, I realised that he was deaf and blind and had been drinking meths all day. No wonder he went straight into me. Poor old chap, he shouldn't have been on the road."

So, there is a tendency on the part of defence advocates to "test the water" by seeing if the injured party turns up, and if he does, whether he's obviously someone whose evidence is going to be treated with great suspicion.
 
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