In defence of motorists

[Mad at urage]

There was no "must overtake cyclist" mode, I was already overtaking the cyclist when conditions changed and felt the safest thing to do was complete the overtake. There was no reaction to my overtake from the cyclist so he couldn'thave felt in any danger.

The road is not suitable to overtake a car, but it was with a cyclist not riding in primary. If he was in primary I would not have even attempted it because this would have told me he was not comfortable with any overtake or that he was going to make a turn somewhere ahead.

Regarding the statement I have highlighted.

163

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

* not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
* use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
* not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
* move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in

Give vulnerable road users at least as much space as you would a car

* take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
* give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
* only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
* give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)

(My bolded text). You would have given a car more room on the road than you would a cyclist, by your own admission there was not room to overtake a car, somehow you thought there was room to overtake a cyclist "not riding in primary" (no mention of primary or secondary in Rule 163 is there?).

162

Before overtaking you should make sure

* the road is sufficiently clear ahead
* road users are not beginning to overtake you
* there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake

167

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

* approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
* where the road narrows
* when approaching a school crossing patrol
* between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
* where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
* when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
* at a level crossing
* when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled
* stay behind if you are following a cyclist approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left
* when a tram is standing at a kerbside tram stop and there is no clearly marked passing lane for other traffic

There was no 'suitable' gap to move back into before you potentially (and in fact did) come into conflict with another road user emerging from a junction that you were approaching.

cd365, please consider getting some additional driver training. Your anticipation of potential situations is lacking and I would heartily recommend the IAM driver training to improve your perception of road hazards and understanding of the HC.

This isn't condemnation, but you made a (potentially critical) mistake in your driving. Understanding that is the first step towards improving.

 

[cyberknight]

Nope, bugger how the driver behind feels about it... the overtake is becoming unsafe with the addition of another car in the mix heading towards you, and a cyclist whos speed you have misjudged... if you need to brake then brake you must.

+1 the driver behind you has as much responsibility to not run into the back of you as you have to ensure your overtake was safe .

And if you were approaching a junction rule 167 of the highway code... as already mentioned applies.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

The speed of the road was 30mph.

The road was clear ahead, the cyclist was not doing the speed limit, I was perfectly entitled to overtake. The problem arised when a car entered the road from a side road. Now unless I can predict the future there was no way for me to see that was about to happen!

Maybe I should have built up a lot of speed and flew past him? Would that have been a better overtake?

No

That's called "must get in front of cyclist"

You shouldn't be overtaking on the approach to a junction so you weren't perfectly entitled to overtake, you thought "it's just a bike - I can get past, my speed is more important than others' safety"

Fair enough, you are kind of admitting you made a mistake...NO-ONE is a perfect driver, but the better drivers learn from mistakes and adjust their driving accordingly

 

[cd365]

So basically no car driver should ever overtake on an inner city road? Side roads appear quite frequently, so should a motorist sit behind a cyclist doing 5mph because there is a side road coming up?

There was a suitable gap to overtake, the side road was 200 yards down the road, I gave the cyclist more than plenty of room in my overtake. Which part of this did you miss? I was back on my side of road long before hitting the side road. I have met every requirement of the highway code you have highlighted above.

The average width of a car is about 6 feet, i have stated that I gave the cyclist at least 6 feet.

If I had been doing the 30mph limit there would have been no issue but I had slowed down to read the road ahead before the overtake.

 

[cyberknight]

I think the issue is although the road may have been clear at the time the conditions changed and instead of stopping your overtake you decided to continue and turn a good situation into a bad one, at the end of the day the other motorist had right of way and the cyclist also had right of way .

Best case scenario would have been to slow down and overtake when the road conditions allowed you to do so safely, regardless of what speed the cyclist was doing.

 

[Dan B]

So basically no car driver should ever overtake on an inner city road? Side roads appear quite frequently, so should a motorist sit behind a cyclist doing 5mph because there is a side road coming up?

That's clearly a stupid argument because the cyclist in your example was not doing 5mph



I suggest you get over your "I was entitled to overtake" mindset and start thinking more in terms of whether it was prudent to overtake. If you had correctly estimated the cyclist's speed before you started the maneouvre, you would not have got into trouble

 

[cd365]

So slowing down and trying to get in behind the cyclist and in front of another car was the safe thing to do? I completely disagree, I felt at the time and still do was that the safest thing to do was complete my overtake. I was along side the cyclist when the other car appeared 200 yards down the road. I increased my speed (I did not go above 30mph) and safely pulled in well in front of the cyclist.

I can see how some car drivers get irate with cyclists on internet forums which some would then take that "f*ck them" attitude out on the road.

 

[gaz]

There was a suitable gap to overtake, the side road was 200 yards down the road, I gave the cyclist more than plenty of room in my overtake. Which part of this did you miss? I was back on my side of road long before hitting the side road. I have met every requirement of the highway code you have highlighted above.

200 yards now? not 200 meters? Still that is a lot of space for an overtake. If that was the amount of distance you had, then there was plenty of time / space for you to finish your manoeuvre.

 

[Dan B]

I can see how some car drivers get irate with cyclists on internet forums

Luckily most car drivers are not in the habit of starting threads on internet cycling forums where they describe how they put themselves and cyclists in danger through ill-judged overtaking manoeuvres and expect praise for it, or we'd all be in the shoot

Look, you made a mistake by not judging the speed of the vehicle you were overtaking. We all make mistakes, that's excusable, but the response is to learn from them, not to defend them on the internet. Man up, admit it, move on.

 

[mickle]

I had a run in with the driver of a people mover recently who went for an overtake and pulled back in to clear a traffic island before he had fully passed me.

He hadn't anticipated my speed because he hadn't taken account of the fact we were on a hill.

When I confronted him he accused me of 'speeding up'.

The fact that I was able to catch up with him and have a lengthy 'conversation' at him tells you that the overtake was not a valid manouvre. He'd have got there just as fast behind me.

 

[beastie]

What point are you trying to make cd ?If you passed with 6 feet clearance and there was no issue because you speeded up to complete the maneuver due to another vehicle appearing unexpectedly, then why post?

 

[Mad at urage]

So slowing down and trying to get in behind the cyclist and in front of another car was the safe thing to do? I completely disagree, I felt at the time and still do was that the safest thing to do was complete my overtake. I was along side the cyclist when the other car appeared 200 yards down the road. I increased my speed (I did not go above 30mph) and safely pulled in well in front of the cyclist.

I can see how some car drivers get irate with cyclists on internet forums which some would then take that "f*ck them" attitude out on the road.

Yes it is the safe thing to do. If you can't safely complete the manoevre without accelerating towards another car with a combined speed of 60mph and a cyclist to your left, aborting the overtake is the safe thing to do.

Re. the latter, I'm not criticising the manoevre you describe because of what I've learned as a cyclist, but from the point of view of a car driver. You are ignoring the HC in an attempt to justify passing a more vulnerable road user in a way that was dangerous enough to worry you (and no doubt the overtaken vehicle).

 

[MacB]

So slowing down and trying to get in behind the cyclist and in front of another car was the safe thing to do? I completely disagree, I felt at the time and still do was that the safest thing to do was complete my overtake. I was along side the cyclist when the other car appeared 200 yards down the road. I increased my speed (I did not go above 30mph) and safely pulled in well in front of the cyclist.

I can see how some car drivers get irate with cyclists on internet forums which some would then take that "f*ck them" attitude out on the road.

Hmmm, some of the slap downs are a bit harsh/pompous but I'm not sure about the final decision you made, I'd have either:-

1. pedal to the metal and zoom past
2. slowed and slotted in behind cyclist

The problem with option 1 is it would encourage the same behaviour from the following car, possibly unsighted re the car that had pulled out, and result in a really close pass, or collision, for the cyclist. But it's still a judgement call and you'd be far from alone in feeling an unreasonable responsibility to the car behind. The problem for cyclists is that these manouevers are really dangerous, faced with a change in circumstances most drivers will veer towards the cyclist rather than risk hitting another vehicle. Braking and pulling back in seems to be well down the list of automatic responses. Even if you're only talikng a bashed wing mirror on one hand compared to a mangled cyclist on the other.

I have personal experience of this as a lorry did it to me one morning, I was still quite new to cycling and not as far out as I should have been. But he turned what would have been a pretty close pass into a collision as oncoming traffic forced him to make a choice, which didn't include slowing down apparently. I was extraordinarily lucky as I bounced along the side of the lorry and remained upright. Ripped jacket, bruised shoulder, arm, elbow and a severe case of the shakes.

Since taking up cycling it's definitely changed my driving habits and I give max room and max forward planning to any decision around them. A few times this has resulted in highly impatient drivers behind who then overtake the same cyclist far too close as if underlining how they feel about my driving. As a result I'm not too sure on how much I actually help a cyclist by these actions. Technically I'm doing the right thing but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.

 

[cd365]

Meters/yards just showing my age now
There was plenty of time to finish my manoeuvre and I did finish it safely. At no time was I anywhere near the cyclist or the car which had pulled out.

I tend to do about 600 miles a month on a cycle so started this thread as a cyclist and as a car driver.

My point was that as a cyclist I get irate with some bad overtakes, but sometimes no matter how much the car driver tries to overtake safely things can happen out of their control and personally I should be a little more aware of their point of view.

A couple of years ago before I had got heavily into cycling I might have been like the other 2 car drivers I witnessed overtaking at speed with not much gap, but my perception of what a cyclist needs has changed.

My mistake was not realising what speed the cyclist was doing, if I had realised he was going faster than I had anticipated, I would have went past at the speed limit but I had tried to go past at a more leisurely speed.

 

[2Loose]

The safest move would have been not to complete the overtake once you correctly judged the cyclists speed. As it was you sped up, clenched and *hoped* that you would be able to get back in lane before meeting the oncoming car. Braking would have ensured that you did, as it was, you lucked out and made the overtake without any impact.

I do experience this phenomenon quite often myself, cars go for the overtake and then realise I am doing 20+ so accelerate and cross their fingers, hoping to get in before they crash, rather than wait and assess the situation properly. In this situation I invariably do their job and brake giving them more room and potentially saving my own life. I shouldn't have to do their road assessment for them.

Not all cyclists pootle at 10mph. Learn from it and assess the road ahead properly before making a move.

Whoever mentioned Advanced driver training - it was a good suggestion, I did some advanced motorcycle training and it completely changed the way I rode for the better ( and often faster to be fair

)