Incidents with FirstYork... x2

[Bigsharn]

So today I've had two different problems with two different Firstbus drivers with the same problem. Dangerously close passes. I've written a letter of complaint (blotting out names amd respective reg numbers ofc) and wondered how I've done as regards to wording and syntax?

To whom it may concern
I am writing regarding the driving standards of two of your drivers from today (21/02/2012). I have uploaded a video of both incidents in question to Youtube on an unlisted link. This means that only people with the link can see it.

The first incident involved an FTR, (reg number, fleet number). The driver in question passed me at a road narrowing, heading uphill and at a dangerously close proximity. I also realise the bus stop at the bottom of The Mount isn't the easiest to manoeuvre a 60ft long vehicle into, but a driver should be able to do so, and leave themself in such a position they can use their mirrors to pull out. As the video displays I am in the centre of the lane to help my visibility to others, and the driver still doesn't see me as he is pulling away. This time there was no indicent, but if I had been driving a car, or on a motorbike I would have had to do an emergency stop, as there was no way he could see me from the position he was in.
Video link below:
I sent an unlisted link, with the full, uncut video. This is the public link

The second incident was with bus (reg plate, fleet number). Travelling up (street) in York the driver in question saw fit to pass me at speed, at a dangerous distance. She then repeated the same manoeuvre on (Other street) on double solid white lines. When I went to confront her about her appaling driving, I was told that I should have been in the (non-existant) cycle lane on both occasions. She was rude, and shut the doors in my face as I was trying to explain my position. Her use of the phrase "I don't give a toss" incinuates that she has a very lacklustre attitude to both the safety of others, and her work ethic.
Video link below:
I sent an unlisted link, with the full, uncut video. This is the public link

I have explained my actions on both videos in their respective descriptions. (which I did)

I hope you take these matters seriously, as I normally have nothing but good experiences with your drivers, I would hate these indicents to spoil that perception.

Yours sincerely
(my name)

So... thoughts?

 

[compo]

Nothing wrong with the letter, factual and to the point. I wouldn't hold your breath for any serious action from FirstBus though.

In your first video where the bus pull out in front of you from the bus stop. It wasn't the best manouvre by the driver, however I would have been happy to back off and let him go. That's not to excuse him pulling out on you. I would prefer to have him in front rather than trying to overtake me again. I tend to take the same attitude when I see lorries waiting to pull out round the lanes I cycle. I let them go rather than have them trying to get passed me on winding lanes.

 

[Bigsharn]

As I said, I wasn't too bothered that he pulled out in front, and tbh I prefer that to him being behind. The problem lies in that he couldn't see his mirrors to pull out with.

 

[mcshroom]

The letter seems fine. Whether or not she believed that you had to stay in a cycle lane (which is an issue in itself for someone who holds a PSV license), overtaking too close because you are not in the lane as a punishment is even worse than doing it by accident. I'm not sure if overtaking you at that point is in itself an offence, as you may have been doing less than 10mph, but passing too close is.

It might be worth finding where the emergency engine cut-off button is on the buses though for future incidents (the P&R bus has one just above the indicator on the back left hand corner)

 

[400bhp]

You cycle in the gutter. Move out man.

 

[germanicdogman]

might be worth mentioning to the bus company
Section 59 of the Police Reform Act – Anti Social Driving Offences
New laws in respect of certain anti social driving offences can now be dealt with by Section 59 of the Police Reform Act.
Basically what that means is if you are seen:

• Driving in a careless or inconsiderate manner
• Driving on common land, a footpath or bridle way or any land which is not part of a road
• Driving in a manner which is causing/has been causing, or is likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public.

 

[400bhp]

I'd put them more on the back foot. Get them to explain why their bus drivers don't know the laws of the road (I'd omit the highway code reference personally). Can you contact the council too.

Very poor pieces of driving.

 

[TonyEnjoyD]

Very balanced letter and fully justified.
I have had 4 replies from customer services at Arriva regarding their drivers por behaviour.
I always point out that if the drivers showed consideration and adhered to a little of the highway code I. Use of bus lanes, then we'd be a lot safer.
The ast letter said that the driver would be monitored using mystery passengers ( like mystery shoppers) and any repeat would result in a final warning if not dismissal!!!

Another point is that all the buses have two cameras constantly recording, one f which is on the drivers rhs pointing to the pay desk and thankfully out of the door showing speed and proximity to whatever it passes.
Very handy to know that.
Tony

 

[growingvegetables]

You have a conversation - at least, I think you do.

Coupla points
- First buses have video cameras too
- Honest? The way the FTR pulled out on you wouldn't have bothered me - I'd probably have slowed to let him out, given that they must be such pigs to drive. But the pass through the traffic lights - WOW! Far too close, and definitely the wrong place. [But then I'm well used to the FTR drivers in Leeds - they'd have hung back and "cover my arse" through the junction; I've nothing but praise for them.]

 

[Bigsharn]

Thanks all for the positive feedback, I just wanted to make sure I approached it correctly. To save pagespace I've cut the bits of quotes that say roughly the same thing

I'm not sure if overtaking you at that point is in itself an offence, as you may have been doing less than 10mph, but passing too close is.

I was going faster than 10mph This hill is sort of in a dip, it's not on the video, but I'd just come off a relatively steep hill before the vid started

It might be worth finding where the emergency engine cut-off button is on the buses though for future incidents)

- First buses have video cameras too

Another point is that all the buses have two cameras constantly recording, one f which is on the drivers rhs pointing to the pay desk and thankfully out of the door showing speed and proximity to whatever it passes. Very handy to know that.

Na, they've got cameras on the nearside and offside of the bus (as well as interior), both pointing forward and backwards. I'd get caught There's also the fact that they use an automatic gearbox, so by shutting the engine down it'd be like an emergency braking manoeuvre, meaning passengers would lose their teeth.

You cycle in the gutter. Move out man.

I'm a wee bit conservative on my road placement, but I've plenty of room to escape should anything come from either side

I'd put them more on the back foot. Get them to explain why their bus drivers don't know the laws of the road. Can you contact the council too?

As much as I appreciate the input, I've worked in PSV and management are a funny bunch, rather than antagonise them from the outset and make things awkward, I'm giving them a chance to redeem themselves in their reply. And I'll be contacting the council, police and VOSA about both incidents if they don't give me a satisfactory answer, don't worry about that

might be worth mentioning to the bus company
Section 59 of the Police Reform Act – Anti Social Driving Offences
New laws in respect of certain anti social driving offences can now be dealt with by Section 59 of the Police Reform Act.
Basically what that means is if you are seen:

• Driving in a careless or inconsiderate manner
• Driving in a manner which is causing/has been causing, or is likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public.

If they disagree I'll be sure to pass that (and rules 163 and 212) on. Most of the people in management hold a PSV license so I wouldn't want to dumb it down for them this early in a complaints process.

Very balanced letter and fully justified.
I have had 4 replies from customer services at Arriva regarding their drivers por behaviour.
I always point out that if the drivers showed consideration and adhered to a little of the highway code I. Use of bus lanes, then we'd be a lot safer.
The ast letter said that the driver would be monitored using mystery passengers ( like mystery shoppers) and any repeat would result in a final warning if not dismissal!!!

Honest? The way the FTR pulled out on you wouldn't have bothered me - I'd probably have slowed to let him out, given that they must be such pigs to drive. But the pass through the traffic lights - WOW! Far too close, and definitely the wrong place. [But then I'm well used to the FTR drivers in Leeds - they'd have hung back and "cover my arse" through the junction; I've nothing but praise for them.]

Replied to your convo Usually I don't have a problem with ftr drivers, apart from on a personal level when I used to work for a rival company. As I mentioned in post #3 it wasn't so much being pulled out on, it was that the driver positioned himself in such a way, that he couldn't see past the rear end of his bus, and therefore couldn't possibly pull out safely.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Agree with the points re the pull out but other than that horrible driving, good luck with the complaint.

I recently had to write to First (leeds) about an incident, standard response back not sure what else to expect. First Leeds (for me) always seem to be at their worst on Woodhouse Lane - uphill and narrow bus lane means they often get stuck behind cyclists. I do try to let them go first if I can but sometimes they get impatient and close passes/pull in's occur.

 

[Bigsharn]

So I've had three replies. It turns out they didn't use my videos, as they can't get Youtube on the office computers, but they're disciplining both drivers. The letters are below:

Dear (Me)

I refer to your complaint which we received on 22 February.

Many thanks for contacting us with regards to the poor driving standards of two of our drivers of our services in York. I appreciate the detail that is included in your email, and the vehicle numbers are very useful. However, in order to trace the individuals concerned we would need more information, such as specific times as many drivers will operate the same vehicles over the course of a day. If you could also clarify the location the incidents occur and the direction of the bus travel, including the service number this would be helpful due to the systems that we use to investigate.

We aim to address every complaint we receive, however I am sure you will appreciate the need for us to locate the correct driver before taking any action. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience that this may cause, and we await your response.


Best Regards

First Customer Services
West & North Yorkshire.

I replied with the details they asked for, and relinked the videos, asking why they hadn't clicked the links

Thanks (Me),

We shall use the information to determine the staff in question.

Whilst the links offered may well prove useful to the depot, I must note
that some sites such as You Tube can be banned by our system IT, hence the
need to ask for the specific times involved.

Thanks again.

Best Regards

First Customer Services
West & North Yorkshire.

And shortly after

Dear (me)

I am writing in response to your Email received by us on 22 February 2012 - many thanks providing us with further details

Please accept my sincere apologies about the alleged poor driving standards of two of drivers, of the number 3 and number 4 services on 21 February 2012. I can recognise the potential danger in which you and others were placed.

Incidents such as this are unacceptable to First. I can confirm that we have been able to trace and identify both drivers concerned from the information that you have given to us. The drivers in question will be interviewed in line with our disciplinary procedure. Due to employee confidentiality, I am unable to disclose the form of action that will be taken, however, it will reflect the seriousness of your complaint.

First is committed to the safety of its customers and other road users. We are reassessing the standards of our drivers through a programme of advanced defensive driving called the Smith's system and we are confident the safety of our services will only increase as we progress with this training.

Once again, please accept my apologies for the upset caused and I appreciate the reason behind your complaint.

Yours sincerely
(contact's name)
Lead Customer Services Agent

In my opinion, very well handled on their part. I have, however sent an email requesting a written apology from the female driver on account of her attitude, purely because that's nothing to do with Firstbus and I wouldn't accept an apology from them on her behalf. All in all, very well handled in my opinion, so a thankyou to First.

 

[wiggydiggy]

..............<SNIP>
In my opinion, very well handled on their part. I have, however sent an email requesting a written apology from the female driver on account of her attitude, purely because that's nothing to do with Firstbus and I wouldn't accept an apology from them on her behalf. All in all, very well handled in my opinion, so a thankyou to First.

The 3rd response is almost to the letter exactly what I got - I had no video but I did give time, route, location etc (I even worked out what time the bus would have left the station). I got mine in a letter though rather than email so perhaps First Leeds computers are even worse than First York.

One thing " First is committed to the safety of its customers and other road users. We are reassessing the standards of our drivers through a programme of advanced defensive driving called the Smith's system and we are confident the safety of our services will only increase as we progress with this training." thing I think she means they are actually using this company called 'Smith System' to train their drivers rather than 'the' Smith System. http://www.smith-system.com/about/our_company/

I might contact First Leeds again to see if they have plans to do the same.

Good luck with getting a personal apology from her, I'd be tempted to send her a pair of glasses though

 

[Bigsharn]

Turns out they can't ask her to issue an apology, because the union would be up in arms. I'm still happy with their part in the process though

 

[wiggydiggy]

Turns out they can't ask her to issue an apology, because the union would be up in arms. I'm still happy with their part in the process though

Definately send the glasses, and maybe some soap to wash her mouth out with