Is cycling turning me into a woman?

[Ravenbait]

So long a you call your bike by a girls name you can consider that you're still a man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What happens if I give my bike a girl's name?

Sam

 

[Shaun]

Erm, okay ... but are stereotypes always inaccurate or wrong, or indeed sexist?

For example, is it sexist to say any of the following:

• Women shave/wax their legs more than men do.
• Most women are more fashion concious and colour coordinated than their male counterparts.
• Most women will carefully chose their accessories to match the outfit they are wearing.
• Most women will be more inclined to look at mens bottoms than womens bottoms.
• Most women will moisturise their face more often than their male counterparts.
• Women are more likely than men to worry about the effect a helmet will have on their hair.

All related to the comments in the OP, all about specific femanine traits, and all reasonable statements?

I know what you're saying - "being like a girl" becomes about women being percieved as inferior because in a "man's" world weakness is, well, a weakness, and therefore the blokes "femanine" traits make him less of a bloke, weaker if you like, but do you honestly think the OP had that in mind with his post?

Can't it just be accepted as a bit of light-hearted banter from a bloke mocking himself for habits he's noticed that are, well, in general terms, femanine?

Cheers,
Shaun

 

[ttcycle]

well worded Sam - been on CC for some time now and every now and then these jokey but sexist threads crop up every now and then.

It gets tiring when the same old assumptions are bandied about unapologetically,

OP - you have some peculiar habits - I'm a woman and don't feel the need to co-ordinate my clothing- oh hang on- don't I have a 100 pairs of shoes as well?!
Actually, think about it, it really is dependent on your personality and feelings about aesthetics and appearance...this is not a woman specific thing, however it seems culturally women can be raised to be an object to be looked at more so then men- sadly, the importance of surface appearance is infecting the lives of both sexes more and more...this I feel is a terrible thing.

So in effect chicken or egg....

Too tired to actually work out a proper response and especially having written one many times over on CC.
Come on fellas - seriously, wise up it's 2010.

 

[Kirstie]

Erm, okay ... but are stereotypes always inaccurate or wrong, or indeed sexist?

For example, is it sexist to say any of the following:

• Women shave/wax their legs more than men do.
• Most women are more fashion concious and colour coordinated than their male counterparts.
• Most women will carefully chose their accessories to match the outfit they are wearing.
• Most women will be more inclined to look at mens bottoms than womens bottoms.
• Most women will moisturise their face more often than their male counterparts.
• Women are more likely than men to worry about the effect a helmet will have on their hair.

All related to the comments in the OP, all about specific femanine traits, and all reasonable statements?

I know what you're saying - "being like a girl" becomes about women being percieved as inferior because in a "man's" world weakness is, well, a weakness, and therefore the blokes "femanine" traits make him less of a bloke, weaker if you like, but do you honestly think the OP had that in mind with his post?

Can't it just be accepted as a bit of light-hearted banter from a bloke mocking himself for habits he's noticed that are, well, in general terms, femanine?

Cheers,
Shaun

They are not all specific feminine traits, plenty of men do the aforementioned as well.
Writing stuff like this off as 'just a joke' and 'normal' doesn't do justice to the continuing struggle where women are routinely held back, overlooked, paid less, afforded fewer opportunities etc because of their so-called stereotypical 'traits', 'attributes' and 'behaviours'.

 

[ttcycle]

Hi Shaun

I think, the crux of this is that the idea of feminine/masculine are really not fixed and tied and specifics to a gender.
That's what i feel the issue is here - I suppose it's about thinking along different lines. As unless people start to become more outward in their ways of expressions/thinking...we really do still remain in the dark about the inequalities between men and women.

What I'm trying to say is that characteristics don't necessarily have a gender to them and reinforcing those ideas perpetuates the continual stereotypes.

I know so many parents at the moment with young boys who push them to do 'masculine' things and play with boys toys if they like hoovering or playing with dolls.

What happened to just letting a kid get on with it, being themselves and not worrying about the gender stereotype.

Am particularly wordy today- apologies for not being more succinct.

 

[Ravenbait]

Erm, okay ... but are stereotypes always inaccurate or wrong, or indeed sexist?

For example, is it sexist to say any of the following:

• Women shave/wax their legs more than men do.
• Most women are more fashion concious and colour coordinated than their male counterparts.
• Most women will carefully chose their accessories to match the outfit they are wearing.
• Most women will be more inclined to look at mens bottoms than womens bottoms.
• Most women will moisturise their face more often than their male counterparts.
• Women are more likely than men to worry about the effect a helmet will have on their hair.

All related to the comments in the OP, all about specific femanine traits, and all reasonable statements?

They're not specific feminine traits! There are men out there who spend three times as long in front of the mirror as most women. There are women who don't shave, at all, ever, and scorn those who tell them they should. There are plenty of women who look at other women's rears far more often than they do men's, and not always (although sometimes) because they fancy the owner.

What's the peer group? What do you mean by "male counterparts"? My other half uses moisturiser because shaving irritates his skin. Does that make him more of a woman? Why in the hell would it? Why should caring about one's appearance be a specifically "femanine" trait rather than merely something that plenty of people do? Have you even looked at the male grooming section in the supermarket recently? Or would you consider even expressing an interest in such things to make you a bit too girly?

These "reasonable statements" belong in an age where caring about one's appearance was considered mandatory for women and a sign of being queer in a man. Thank the gods we've moved on from there, and no thanks to the people who continue to portray these stereotypes as if they were somehow rooted in objective fact as opposed to cultural preconceptions and assumptions that are now outmoded, outdated and belong in the trash bin of history along with Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson.

I know what you're saying - "being like a girl" becomes about women being percieved as inferior because in a "man's" world weakness is, well, a weakness, and therefore the blokes "femanine" traits make him less of a bloke, weaker if you like, but do you honestly think the OP had that in mind with his post?

Yes! Absolutely! Otherwise what would be the point? Where would the joke be? Do you think that the OP meant for us to read his post as a "Great! I'm turning into a girl! How cool is that?!" Just look at the way people have responded, using words like "ponce". The boy's club mentality of "you don't wanna do that, mate, you'll look like a GIRL" is sadly alive and well in Western culture and will remain so as long as things like this go unchallenged and are unthinkingly dismissed as no more than "a bit of light-heated banter".

Can't it just be accepted as a bit of light-hearted banter from a bloke mocking himself for habits he's noticed that are, well, in general terms, femanine?

You are missing the point.

This is sexist and offensive because of the use of comparison with female steretypes for self-mockery. What is wrong with being feminine that makes it worthy of mockery?

The answer is that there isn't, and anything that suggests there is something inherently inferior about being female or having qualities generally considered to be feminine, whether by implication or outright suggestion, is sexist and offensive.

If you find sexist and offensive jokes funny, then that's what floats your boat. I, on the other hand, reserve the right to point out that I, as a woman, find this particular brand of humour not funny in the slightest.


Sam

 

[Shaun]

They are not all specific feminine traits, plenty of men do the aforementioned as well.

They do ... but more women do them than men, therefore it is reasonable to percieve them as femanine traits. That's the point I was making.

If I said "Washing dishes will turn you into a woman" then that would be unreasonable and, quite frankly, bloody stupid. Equally if I said "More women wash the pots than men do" it would also be unreasonable since society today has shifted away from "mum at home with the kids" and nowadays more men play more of a role in the home with both the housework and bringing up the kids. Besides more people have dishwashers now than in 1950's Britain ...

I'm not a sexist and don't advocate sexist views on CC - you know that already - I've banned at least one person on the basis of continual sexists posts. I just didn't see this post as particularly sexist - more an observation of femanine traits.

Is it really that bad? Should I lock the thread? More worryingly, am I now percieved as a sexist because I don't feel it is strongly sexist?

Cheers,
Shaun

 

[ttcycle]

I know you're not sexist Shaun but the thing we're trying to point out here is - WHY women do these things more (according to you)

Is it because they want to or is it because it's culturally conditioned? Chicken or egg?
If there wasn't a focus on things women and or men do - would we be having this conversation?

 

[Theseus]

Hold it there folks, I need to get a new bag of popcorn.









So long as it doesn't offend anyone.

 

[ttcycle]

touche I'm not offended- just writing (badly by my standards) and challenging a somewhat weak arguement.

 

[Speicher]

I am now left wondering if I am becoming more like a man.

I found the OP funny, and some of the early posts that were of a similar nature.

Furthermore, when I last went on holiday, I had two pairs of shoes in my suitcase.
I know the off-side rule in football, and do not confuse off-side and near-side when talking about cars. I also know how to make the most of opposite lock when reversing.

Nobody objected to my thread about my swimming pool and the Rugby players.

 

[theclaud]

I'm with RB (and TT and Kirstie) and I couldn't have put it any better. I don't see why people can't just stop making this kind of gag. There's not much to lose on account of it never having been funny anyway. The interesting thing is why challenges to it provoke such a defensive response...

 

[ttcycle]

Bloody hell Speicher, we should meter out pink is good and shoe etiquette lessons for letting the side down

 

[Speicher]

I know you're not sexist Shaun but the thing we're trying to point out here is - WHY women do these things more (according to you)

Is it because they want to or is it because it's culturally conditioned? Chicken or egg?
If there wasn't a focus on things women and or men do - would we be having this conversation?

Perhaps you could start a new thread on that subject?

Some of us were finding this thread funny - Touche, can I have some popcorn please?

 

[Speicher]

Bloody hell Speicher, we should meter out pink is good and shoe etiquette lessons for letting the side down

If that is your attitude, I think I will join the "other side" quite willingly, without your encouragement thank you.