Is it any wonder that there are poor drivers?

[Sheffield_Tiger]

When a driver's education begins like this, what hope is there?

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uzvNz1LHa0[/media]


Instructor guides student through an illegal U-turn in order to drive through a bus gate illegally.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Okay, for arguments sake let's say that illegal was possibly incorrect insofar is it is a should not rather than a must not however certainly contrary to the highway code which is not something a driving instructor should be imparting as correct behaviour. It was not a necessary manoevre, certainly not when one considers that the purpose of the manouvre in its entirity, from the left turn, through the U-turn and beyond, was to reach and continue througy the bus gate here (left lane) from the original position here Given that there was other traffic following, neither was it safe to do so.


130
Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

• if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
• if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

[Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9, 10 & 16, MT(S)R regs 4, 8, 9 & 14, RTA sect 36 & TSRGD 10(1)]


I can see where you are coming from with the closeness however due to broken spokes, I wasn't on my normal bike and the cam was mounted on the full bar ends of the MTB, so significantly further forward than is normal for cycle-cam footage and certainly further forward than helmet-cams which are the norm on here giving an increased illusion of closeness with the focal length of the ATC2K.

The only time I was actually close given the speeds involved were during the turn AFTER the driver had made the turn then slowed to jink left during the turn - it is natural to get closer when something slows, that is what stopping distances are for, of which one was left

 

[HJ]

I think the local Supervising Examiner would be interested in seeing that video. That would the most effective means of dealing with the issue, the Supervising Examiner can require the instructor to take a check test, fails they could be put under supervision until the standard of training improves or for the worst cases have their ADI badge removed and not be allowed to retrain for two years, after which they would have to re-qualify from scratch.

 

[marinyork]

[QUOTE 1151743"]
How is that an illegal u-turn? and not being funny but what right have you got to ride so close behind a learner driver? I was trying to look for some sort of sign that prohibits u-turns but couldn't because you was so close to the car in front.

[/quote]

The big massive blue sign and the line markings are usually a clue.

The very bad driving may possibly be excused in that the driving instructor with their presumably bad directions may well have been trying to keep the learner off a scary dual carriageway (for a learner) rather than the usual trick of short cuts. Once you carry on you're locked in.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Not really a way of keeping off the D/C though...to do that would have been simpler - just not make the right turn!

 

[marinyork]

Not really a way of keeping off the D/C though...to do that would have been simpler - just not make the right turn!

Yes, certainly. But I don't know whether the instructor just made an error. I can understand them not wanting to take them on Penistone Road if that was the reasoning. It still seems unlikely it was.

 

[dondare]

Learner drivers make very silly mistakes. It does not mean that they're being badly taught.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

OK then

A good driving instructor will advise their students to drive eratically and make U turns in front of other traffic across clearly marked chevrons.

Lee, if you think that is in any way acceptable practice to teach a student driver, then perhaps it's best that you do stick to splitting hairs on forums

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

Learner drivers make very silly mistakes. It does not mean that they're being badly taught.

I think the point was more about the standard of the Instructor who thought it fine to allow their student to do such driving.... if a student tried to do that without the Instructors direction they would be stopped pretty sharpish (I would hope).

 

[dondare]

A learner can take the instructor by surprise by turning the wrong way or getting into the wrong lane. Learners can get flustered even with the most competent instructor and that road lay-out does look confusing. Without being able to hear the conversation inside the car you can't make any assumptions as to how much is down to poor instruction and how much is down to learner panic.

 

[Clive Atton]

I think the OP should have cycled a bit closer and crowded the learner a bit more to try and put them off and generally just make life more difficult for them. I can't help but wonder if Sheffield-Tiger has a driving licence, or even had a driving lesson, if that learner had only just started driving it's stressful enough without someone cycling like that around you.

 

[BentMikey]

I think the OP should have cycled a bit closer and crowded the learner a bit more to try and put them off and generally just make life more difficult for them. I can't help but wonder if Sheffield-Tiger has a driving licence, or even had a driving lesson, if that learner had only just started driving it's stressful enough without someone cycling like that around you.

I think you're failing to take into account how close an ATC2000 makes you seem, when in fact you're much further away.

 

[BentMikey]

I'm not quite sure what the fuss is about in this video...

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

A learner can take the instructor by surprise by turning the wrong way or getting into the wrong lane. Learners can get flustered even with the most competent instructor and that road lay-out does look confusing. Without being able to hear the conversation inside the car you can't make any assumptions as to how much is down to poor instruction and how much is down to learner panic.

Nothing confusing about the road layout at all (other than everything is confusing to a learner, but it's not the learner that I have an issue with)

1: Junction with left turn only indicated and marked clearly with chevrons, onto a normal 2-way street
2: A right turn at a T-junction

Nothing out of the ordinary...the road with the tram lines isn't a one-way - the learner drifted over to the wrong side of the road (that happens, not blaming the learner, but if the instructor hadn't meant the right turn to be taken, then drifting over was plenty of notice that something would be awry.

Granted it's not clear on the video but at the beginning, the instructor was pointing to the right and pointing out the bus gate over to the right. Now, the conversation can't be "word for word" but would have been something like this starting from the first junction

"Now, see here - we want to be going right but the road is laid out specifically to stop this and we have to turn left. So, what we need to do is turn left here than turn right on the next road. Now, swing round in the road, that's it, now we can turn left and turn left again - don't worry about the blue bus gate signs, they haven't got cameras on this bus gate so you won't get done"

(No, I wasn't going to follow the U-turn and film further but as I progressed through the traffic lights and looked right, I could see "Jango" coming out of the bus gate - the whole point of all this was to get through the prohibited bus gate)

The "fuss" isn't claiming a "near miss" or some other dramatic incident, it is with learners being taught to ignore prohibitions and drive in bus/cycle lanes that they are banned from. I don't happen to consider it a very good grounding at all.

 

[HJ]

Learner drivers make very silly mistakes. It does not mean that they're being badly taught.

That is not an excuse in a duel control car...