Is it worth buying an "old" Brompton?

[smutchin]

they said the rear hinge has been replaced recently

Reassuring. Sounds to me like it could be worth a punt.

 

[T4tomo]

The major upgrade with the introduction of the titanium superlight frame options, a slightly longer wheelbase I think and different handlebars was 2005.

Stuff like brake levers and pentaclips are pretty easy and cheap upgrades to retrofit.

 

[Poacher]

Some very good advice above, to which I can only add my exhortation never to buy a Brompton which lacks the serial number sticker on the back of the seat tube. This is nearly always a sign that the bike has been stolen at some point in its existence. At the risk of being accused of vanity, I'll re-post my previous contributions on this (saves me re-typing!):

AFAIK the (very) sticky label with the 10 digit serial number and bar code is fitted at point of sale, rather than at the factory, and is effectively your guarantee. It's also a sure way of tracing the origin of a Brommy, which is why so many of those for sale on fleabay are lacking this crucial sticker.
It's worthwhile not just to keep a record of both the serial and frame numbers, but also to register these on the Brompton website, and never remove the serial number sticker, even for aesthetic reasons!

As well as the frame number which is stamped on the flat part of the rear hinge, each Brompton has a durable sticker applied to the back of the seat tube at point of sale.
This bears a serial number and bar code, and constitutes the guarantee; if it's removed for any reason (usually a nefarious one!) the sticky residue which is left reads "VOID".
Ask to see a photo of the serial number sticker, if it's not clearly shown on the Gumtree/Ebay/whatever photo(s). If there's no sticker, don't touch the deal with a barge pole, as it's almost certain to be a wrong 'un. The original dealer will have made absolutely clear that the sticker should not be removed under any circumstances - and there's no good reason to do so.

 

[berlinonaut]

The major upgrade with the introduction of the titanium superlight frame options, a slightly longer wheelbase I think and different handlebars was 2005.

As said before: Mk4 (longer wheelbase) was in the beginning of 2004. S and P handlebars and titanium were in 2005 (in about May).

Stuff like brake levers and pentaclips are pretty easy and cheap upgrades to retrofit.

It just adds up. I've done it myself and seen others doing it. I.e.:

- Basically unused late MK2, bought and upgraded to today's standard a couple of years ago. Buy price was 600€, upgrades were another 600€, w/o labour, just for the parts. Crankset was not upgraded.
- 2010 beater. Looked used but ok. Repaired what needed to be done, some smaller upgrades. Goal was a pragmatic bike for daily use, working well but as cheap as possible. Price for the bike was 500€ (way cheaper than normal in Germany for a bike of that age), repairs added up to another 500€ including changing the rear hinge which I had done at a workshop. The rest were parts. In the end the bike was working well, but it optically it was still not a beauty. Rims were not changed and are relatively near to eol.

Both tasks were done more for scientific puropses, to find out what you really end up with instead of guessing. In both cases buying a newer bike or one in better shape would have been the better choice. Even more if you cannot perform necessary repairs yourself.
So don't get fooled by a low price - it's the same as with cars: The better bike is the better buy.

 

[berlinonaut]

Some very good advice above, to which I can only add my exhortation never to buy a Brompton which lacks the serial number sticker on the back of the seat tube. This is nearly always a sign that the bike has been stolen at some point in its existence. At the risk of being accused of vanity, I'll re-post my previous contributions on this (saves me re-typing!):

Would not buy into that. The serial number was only invented at the end of 2001 - older bikes did never have one. It has absolutely nothing to do with warranty (and on an older bike warranty is long gone anyway). The sticker was sometimes removed by the owner for optical purposes, more often the sticker is still there but you cannot read the number any more. Lack of the serial number is in my experience by no means an indicator for a stolen bike. In late summer 2015 Brompton started to replace the sticker with the serial with a metal badge in the same location. Since then the vanishing is less of an issue. In the German Brompton forum we maintain a crowdsourced collection of frame numbers and build dates (derivated from the serial numbers of the bikes) to make it possible to thumb-guess the build date of bikes w/o serials, additions to the list are always very welcome (hint, hint): http://www.bromptonauten.de/phorum3/read.php?1,19789 As far as I am aware this is the only collection of this kind outside the Brompton factory - the collection in the Brompton book ends with the invention of the serials end of 2001.

 

[12boy]

I have a 2010 which came with the swaged one piece crank arm and chain ring. I went with a sugino 130 BCD crankset and the later to a sugino 110 BCD largely to try different chain rings. I still use the original crankset though, just on another bike. It is about 200 grams lighter, and since the taper is ISO, not JIS, sits a little further in for a better chainline. Obviously, when the chain ring teeth are worn, it will have to go, but for now, it works well and hasn't been cheesy at all. I was less impressed with the BB which I lacked the tools to tighten with its plastic parts. Aside from rear sprockets, tires and rims wearing out more quickly and the need to periodically replace the seat post insert and the rear frame hinge spindle, mine seems no more costly or difficult to maintain tha the rest of my bikes. Having said that, if there is way to ride any bike before buying it I think it wise to do so. I have had bikes that looked good on paper but never felt comfortable to ride.

 

[Poacher]

Would not buy into that. The serial number was only invented at the end of 2001 - older bikes did never have one. It has absolutely nothing to do with warranty (and on an older bike warranty is long gone anyway). The sticker was sometimes removed by the owner for optical purposes, more often the sticker is still there but you cannot read the number any more. Lack of the serial number is in my experience by no means an indicator for a stolen bike. In late summer 2015 Brompton started to replace the sticker with the serial with a metal badge in the same location. Since then the vanishing is less of an issue. In the German Brompton forum we maintain a crowdsourced collection of frame numbers and build dates (derivated from the serial numbers of the bikes) to make it possible to thumb-guess the build date of bikes w/o serials, additions to the list are always very welcome (hint, hint): http://www.bromptonauten.de/phorum3/read.php?1,19789 As far as I am aware this is the only collection of this kind outside the Brompton factory - the collection in the Brompton book ends with the invention of the serials end of 2001.

Fair enough; my quoted posts were from 2013/2015, I think, when they were possibly more relevant. When I bought my Brompton, in 2009, I was told not to remove the sticker, as it was proof of warranty. Mrs Poacher bought a Brompton off ebay in 2012, allegedly a 2010 bike. When it arrived I was immediately suspicious that the serial sticker had been removed (leaving the diagonal "VOID" residue); the frame number was lower than my 2009 one and there were various other niggling features. I shelled out for a professional condition report which confirmed my suspicions that the bike was not as described. We returned it in an official Brompton packing box, with a copy of the report, and got a refund of the purchase price, but not for return carriage or the cost of the report.

Possibly going above and beyond, we reported the events to Brompton, who traced the frame number to the original dealer, who in turn contacted their purchaser, who confirmed it had been stolen. He managed to persuade the police to raid the ebay vendor, which resulted in the return of his bike and the recovery of several more stolen Bromptons and other property. The vendor was banned from ebay, and actually served some time at her maj's pleasure.
I hope you'll understand that I'm very cautious about second-hand Bromptons as a result of this bitter experience. We bit the bullet, price-wise, and bought a new Brompton for her - she's very pleased with it (although she rarely rides it!) and we have peace of mind.

 

[berlinonaut]

bitter experience.

That's a sad story! Still there is the difference between coincidence and correlation. In fact the thieves were stupid to sell a bike that did not match the desription - that's what made you suspicious in the first hand. Each, frame-number and serial number enable on it's own identification of the bike and it is tougher (and definitively suspicious) to remove the frame number. And removing the serial does not help to hide that a bike was stolen as your case shows. So the lack of the serial may not be trust building but still to me it would not make a bike suspicious - I know way too many cases where it is missing or unreadable on totally legitimate bikes.

 

[simongt]

You don’t need to use expensive bags.

Agree completely. The GLW and both have Bromptons with the basic open bag on the front block plus a rain cover when needed. It never fails to amaze us just how much can be stowed in said bag and no effect on the handling; until you lob six 2ltr. bottles of water in there after a trip to Aldi - !

 

[jay clock]

Agree completely. The GLW and both have Bromptons with the basic open bag on the front block plus a rain cover when needed. It never fails to amaze us just how much can be stowed in said bag and no effect on the handling; until you lob six 2ltr. bottles of water in there after a trip to Aldi - !

I find there is a massive effect on the handling. For the better....

 

[jay clock]

To get back to the OP question it is a personal thing but I would not touch with a bargepole. Quite likely to need new cables, tyres, chain, etc etc and it is 16 years old. And for that you are paying half price. You could easily need to spend £100-150 on tidying it up. I would find a way to get a new one (appreciate cashflow may be an issue for some)

 

[recumbentpanda]

I used a Brompton for daily commuting for nearly ten years. Bought new, the only major failure was a blown out wheel rim -the braking surface on small wheels wears faster, although not unduly so. After another ten years of light occasional use the bridge in the rear frame was found to be rusted through, and the hinge bearings showing slight signs of play. Gave it to a local charity who repaired it and sold it on. In that condition it would have cost me too much to repair, even doing the work myself, but the charity has volunteer mechanics so the numbers work better.

Son bought a modern Brompton second hand recently and I was very impressed by the many small improvements in design and quality.

When buying second hand,

-try to get the most recent model you can afford.

Check for:

- Condition of rims

- Play in rear frame hinge (small amount is still rideable usually)

- Rust in rear frame (mostly in the bridges)

- Condition of main frame hinge

- Hub gear working (when correctly adjusted)

Plus all the other stuff you’d look for on a normal bike . . .

 

[smutchin]

Obviously, when the chain ring teeth are worn, it will have to go, but for now, it works well and hasn't been cheesy at all.

On mine the crank sheared away from the chainring when pulling away from the lights, and I’ve heard plenty of stories of similar happening to others.

 

[simongt]

I find there is a massive effect on the handling. For the better....

'Cos of course, as any Brompton owner will tell you, the bag is attached to the main frame and not to the handlebar or front forks. Hence the excellent handling when loaded.

 

[chriscross1966]

Agree completely. The GLW and both have Bromptons with the basic open bag on the front block plus a rain cover when needed. It never fails to amaze us just how much can be stowed in said bag and no effect on the handling; until you lob six 2ltr. bottles of water in there after a trip to Aldi - !

That indicates you need to pump up the front tyre