Is this the UK's most dangerous zebra crossing?

[Alex321]

Why then has it only become the problem it is in recent years. As opposed to when it was first placed there?

I don't know if it has. It may always have been an issue, but the camera has only been there recently - why would a camera have been placed there otherwise?

I doubt those driving over the crossing won't be aware of design changes, and it not meeting current standards. What's changed since it was first moved to that location, the crossing hasn't, it's simply been repainted over time to keep it visible.

But given its clearly marked, Belisha Beacons, correct road markings(even for these days), why are drivers failing to yield to those on the crossing.

I'm not sure. Maybe the road has become busier, or more particularly, the two side roads have?

The one issue that really springs out to my untrained eye is that people turning right from either of those side roads are going to be immediately on top of the crossing. The drivers should of course be looking at pedestrians approaching it as well as looking for a gap in passing traffic, but I can easily see how poor drivers might fail to see that while concentrating on getting into the road.

Bad driving to not properly observe the approaches, undoubtedly. But the guidelines say crossings should not be that close to a junction for a reason, and there isn't just one junction too close, there are two, one each side of the crossing.

I don't know that is the problem, but they are IMO right to investigate, find out what actually is causing so much bad driving there, and take steps to reduce the incidence.

 

[Poacher]

I'm not sure. Maybe the road has become busier, or more particularly, the two side roads have?

The one issue that really springs out to my untrained eye is that people turning right from either of those side roads are going to be immediately on top of the crossing. The drivers should of course be looking at pedestrians approaching it as well as looking for a gap in passing traffic, but I can easily see how poor drivers might fail to see that while concentrating on getting into the road.

Bad driving to not properly observe the approaches, undoubtedly. But the guidelines say crossings should not be that close to a junction for a reason, and there isn't just one junction too close, there are two, one each side of the crossing.

I don't know that is the problem, but they are IMO right to investigate, find out what actually is causing so much bad driving there, and take steps to reduce the incidence.

Am I missing something here? All of the collisions or near misses I've seen have been with cars travelling along the main road, not entering the main road from either of those side roads. Can you point me to the videos that I've overlooked?

 

[DRM]

My son was offered a earlier test date for £200...

I wonder what £1000 brings a pass???

Quite probably, that’s another one that occurs, getting someone to take the driving test on your behalf

 

[Alex321]

Am I missing something here? All of the collisions or near misses I've seen have been with cars travelling along the main road, not entering the main road from either of those side roads. Can you point me to the videos that I've overlooked?

I haven't seen the cars from far enough back to be sure of that.

But it is just something which to my eye looks iffy. It may not be the reason - I said I don't know that it is.

I don't know what the problem there is. I can speculate, as we all can, but all I know is that if there are a lot more such incidents at that crossing than at others nearby, then it is worth investigating why that is. Which is where this branch of the conversation started, with Phaeton saying it is a waste of time investigating, because it is "just" bad drivers.

 

[Mike_P]

The video that is linked in the thread clearly only shows Spencer Road, a dead end with a dead end road off it.

 

[classic33]

I haven't seen the cars from far enough back to be sure of that.

But it is just something which to my eye looks iffy. It may not be the reason - I said I don't know that it is.

I don't know what the problem there is. I can speculate, as we all can, but all I know is that if there are a lot more such incidents at that crossing than at others nearby, then it is worth investigating why that is. Which is where this branch of the conversation started, with Phaeton saying it is a waste of time investigating, because it is "just" bad drivers.

Why only recently though. And you blamed the crossing, then the siting of the crossing. Modern drivers being made to use a crossing, which has been there for years, that they might not understand the markings and layout don't meet modern requirements.

How many drivers on the roads these days, will be that up on road marking specifications?

 

[Alex321]

Why only recently though.

As I said before, we don';t actually know it is only recently.

As I also said when you asked the sam question before, possibly traffic vlume on the road (and side oads) has increased?

But as I have also said several times, anything I say about actual causes is speculation. I don't know what the answers are.

And you blamed the crossing, then the siting of the crossing.

I have done neither.

I have said that IF that crossing has significantly more issues than others in the area, (which we can't actually be certain of), then there is clearly SOME issue. I have not at any time said hat that issue is 0- because I DON'T KNOW.

Modern drivers being made to use a crossing, which has been there for years, that they might not understand the markings and layout don't meet modern requirements.

How many drivers on the roads these days, will be that up on road marking specifications?

I'm not aware of any changes to road markings for zebras since those zig-zag lines came in - quite a few years ago.

All drivers should know that you are not allowed to stop within those zig-zags, other than for the crossing itself or any traffic lights.

But I'm not sure what point you are making here., I doubt very much that the markings are part of whatever the issue is.

 

[Alex321]

Cars parked on the crossing, either side of the road, was one reason it was moved.

Question, how did that car get shop on the pavement in front of the shop.
Via the pedestrian crossing perchance?

From this photo, it looks more likely it will have used the dropped kerb from the side road (note the tyre round the bollard, presumably to stop cars coming on that way from bashing against the concrete.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.788...4!1szT5NHMqlHDC1pJPZM7wXwg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

[matticus]

classic33 said:
"The crossing isn't at fault, it's driver behaviour. They don't want to slow down, much less have to stop."

It isn't an either/or choice.

The drivers are certainly at fault. But that doesn't mean the crossing is perfectly OK.

Exactly: there are almost always 2-or-more factors causing any incident.
Some possible human causes here:
- the pedestrian(s),
- the driver,
- person/body designing the crossing,
- person/body assessing the incidents at the crossing over time.
It's probably ALL OF THE ABOVE, but each to a different degree!

p.s. @classic33 the crossing is unlikely to be at fault - it's an inaminate object!

 

[DRM]

While I agree that the car drivers are seriously at fault, that zebra is very badly placed IMO, though if they moved it, I suspect people would still attempt to cross where it was.

I say it is badly placed because there are two side roads, one from each side, which are so close that each has the zigzags from the crossing going the whole way across the junction. It also, from streetview, appears to be at the bottom of a hill in BOTH directions.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.788...4!1sdLFLYztyE2jW70q7trdBVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I drove along Heaton Rd this morning, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that crossing, the picture is very deceptive, there’s only one junction, that’s the one on at the top of the picture, at the bottom of the picture is a row of terraced houses, that go the length of the road, to the left of the picture, past the crossing is marked keep clear, now the main problem is that this section of road is quite narrow, but farther on to the left of the picture the road is much wider past the Asda up to the crossing, so that could contribute to speeding along there, it really is just down to bad driving that any body gets knocked over there

 

[DRM]

I drove along Heaton Rd this morning, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that crossing, the picture is very deceptive, there’s only one junction, that’s the one on at the top of the picture, at the bottom of the picture is a row of terraced houses, that go the length of the road, to the left of the picture, past the crossing is marked keep clear, now the main problem is that this section of road is quite narrow, but farther on to the left of the picture the road is much wider past the Asda up to the crossing, so that could contribute to speeding along there, it really is just down to bad driving that any body gets knocked over there

Ignore that lot, I’m getting my roads muddled up, d’oh !

 

[Mike_P]

Ignore that lot, I’m getting my roads muddled up, d’oh !

You can delete a posting - option found by the three dots and down arrow at the foot

 

[DRM]

You can delete a posting - option found by the three dots and down arrow at the foot

At least it caused a laugh and a bit of head scratching as in wot is he going on about!