Is this unreasonable ?

[colly]

Ok so this isn't really my issue, but I have an interest because it concerns my son.
Now my lad is not one to be pushed about or be taken advantage of so he can fight his own corner well enough.
He works in maintenance and atm is working for a company that has the contract to repair and maintain houses for a housing association. Pay is OK but not staggering, and every 6 weeks or so he will be on call out to deal with emergencies. It could be anything from a broken door or window, new locks needed somewhere, a sudden leak, anything which needs attention right away. You get the picture.
During the call out week he works a normal shift and is on call all other times.
He gets a fee for every call out and x 1.5 that fee for weekends. On a busy week it can earn him (and the others in the team) quite a bit extra. So far so good.
Last week after working from 7.30 until 4.30 he got 2 emergencies to go on. So he did one on his way back home and got in at around 6.30. The next was some 50 miles away so off he goes. While he is out he gets another 5 emergencies. So he zig zags about the Yorkshire for the next 6 hours and finally gets into bed at around 1.30 or so.
Up again the following morning, another full day and later on being on call again he is once again off out in the evening. Then another couple of calls come in and he drags himself into bed at around 4.30am.
Unsurprisingly he doesn't turn out first thing, but instead calls in to say he is taking 'rest time' and they can move his schedule around so he will be starting at 11.30.
The same thing happend on Sunday night/monday morning when he got in around 5.30 in the morning after being out since 1am.
So today he gets a call saying he has to make up the rest time. His response was ''well you can forget that.''

Now so far as I know there is nothing in any contract that even considers rest time. EU legislation maybe doesn't quite cover it.
So I think he is right to take time off bearing mind he will be driving and using power tools possibly when in no fit state to be doing so.
Like I say he can stand his ground and he can be a spiky sod at times.
I just wondered. Do you think the company is being unreasonable in expecting him to make up the rest time or is my lad being unreasonable?

 

[Drago]

I think they're being unreasonable. If your lad had an accident and hurt himself (or someone else) because he was tired they would wash their hands of him so fast your head would spin.

They have a duty of care to an employees health and wellbeing, as well as those the employee comes into contqct with while working, and trying to catch up on a few hours desperately needed sleep after a prolonged series of call outs is not unreasonable.

He's entitled by law to 11 hours uninterrupted rest period in every 24 hours, and 24 hours uninterrupted every week, without prejudice to his salary.

 

[DCLane]

Working time directive? Unless he's chosen to opt out.

 

[BSOh]

I think they're being unreasonable. If your lad had an accident and hurt himself (or someone else) because he was tired they would wash their hands of him so fast your head would spin.

They have a duty of care to an employees health and wellbeing, as well as those the employee comes into contqct with while working, and trying to catch up on a few hours desperately needed sleep after a prolonged series of call outs is not unreasonable.

He's entitled by law to 11 hours uninterrupted rest period in every 24 hours, and 24 hours uninterrupted every week, without prejudice to his salary.

I'd agree with this too. I worked for 15 years in utilities companies sending out emergency repair teams.
Unfortunately sub contracting and sub sub contracting meant that notice paid to such directives was as minimal as the contract price they got paid.

Is there a good hr dept there he can speak to?

 

[Hill Wimp]

Working time directive? Unless he's chosen to opt out.

^^^^^ this in spades

As someone who works in the public sector and is about to retire in not the best of health because of it, this applies to everyone to my knowledge. He must have his rest time. If they decide he is not worthy and choose to remove him from their workforce as a result of this i would seek legal advice for constructive dismissal.

 

[screenman]

My lad was a full time firefighter, as long as he did his retained as well, some weeks he got nearly an hour off. When he stopped retained due to a move he lost his full time, it was a rolling contract that he had just under two year into.

 

[Levo-Lon]

when i get called out , not that often ,i dont get any overtime or extra anything.
but i get the time back when i want it.
so a 2 hr sunday repair = early finish friday.

as for the OPs son i think he is being propper shafted

 

[MarkF]

He's entitled by law to 11 hours uninterrupted rest period in every 24 hours, and 24 hours uninterrupted every week, without prejudice to his salary.

Yep, I am in the public sector and can refuse shifts without 11 hours between them. Depends on what I feel like, sometimes I'll finish at 10pm and they'll want me in at 6am, er no...............

 

[gbb]

If it were me and I have seen similar attempts for companies to push their employees to the limit..,I'd stand my ground. My company can be tough but will often back down IME if really pushed. I'm old school, they can shove it and I will risk pushing to the limit myself. If a jobs that bad, I wouldn' t want to be part of it for long..,new job time. Mind, at nearly 60, the opportunities diminish quickly I should think.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Sounds like poor scheduling too. A week being on call with so many call outs is unreasonable if what you describe is common.

 

[Drago]

You can opt out of the 48 hour weekly limit.

You can decide, on an instance by instance basis whether or not YOU choose to adhere to the 11 hour rule, but you can not opt out of that and sign away your rights as you can the 48 hour limit. You can not be forced. Its your decision on each individual occasion.

Actually, there's some case law. Its 11 hours between scheduled tours, 11 hours plus travelling time between unscheduled tours.

His employers have laws to obey, and an inviolable duty of care to their employee and those with whom he comes into contact, period. He'd have them by the Jacobs if it went to a tribunal.

 

[stephec]

What about the others that he works with, do they all just accept it without arguement, or would they all stand together in agreement against their boss?

 

[irw]

You can opt out of the 48 hour weekly limit.
You can decide, on an instance by instance basis whether or not YOU choose to adhere to the 11 hour rule, but you can not opt out of that and sign away your rights as you can the 48 hour limit. You can not be forced. Its your decision on each individual occasion.

What @Drago said- you can opt out of the 48-hour week (as averaged over 17 weeks, or something like that), but even if you do that, you are still entitled to statutory rest breaks

 

[colly]

Thanks for your replies.

Seems so far the concensus is that it's the company who are not being reasonable. My opinion too.

It isn't the first time anything like this has happend but it is the first time they have asked him to justify in writing what he is doing. I know for a fact that some, if not most of the other lads grumble about turning out early after only having a couple of hours sleep and at least one other, like my lad will stand his ground. Some just cave in and let themselves be bullied.
Of course all of the lads like being on call out because of the money, sometimes it's only a couple of calls during the whole week, other times it might be worth as much as a months pay so it isn't anything they would want to lose.
It's an odd one because the contract is coming to and end and another company will be taking over. What happens in such cases is the the workforce gets transferred to the new company, so why the current people are being awkward so late in the day is odd. There's been no threat of disiplinary action or anything like that.
There was talk of splitting the work force into seperate teams some of which would work 12 hours on and the next team would work the next 12 hours, so there would be no need for any emergency call outs because there would always be someone available. More money and different hours etc but they decided to drop the contract before it was implimented.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[irw]

Are the call outs classed as overtime? IIRC, Employers cannot force employees to take on overtime, but can ask them if they are able to do it. If this is the case, and he is effectively accepting overtime which is having an impact on his normal hours, then I could conceivably see why they are asking him to make up the 'standard hours' that he's missed.