Jeremy Vine.

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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
By that logic, nobody can ever drive in towns/cities where multiple lanes are all going the same way.
How are you reasoning that?

Those lanes are designed so that it should be safe for traffic in each lane to travel forwards independently of traffic in the lanes either side of them.

Whether that traffic is trucks or bicycles, or anything in between is irrelevant.
No, it's very relevant. Those lanes are designed so it should be safe for SOME traffic. We know that there are many lanes which are too narrow for use by larger vehicles. Sometimes there are even signs reminding drivers of large vehicles to straddle lanes.

Good practice when overtaking normally is to give at least 1.5m distance between you and whatever you are overtaking (regardless of whether it is a cyclist or another motorist). But that really doesn't apply when there are multiple lanes in low speed limit areas such as that. If it did, then no traffic could ever move faster than the slowest vehicle on that road.
So what's the problem with that? There's no God-given right to drive at the speed limit all the time and it's a 20mph road anyway, so there won't be a big speed difference between fastest and slowest. Plus, not all vehicles are so wide that they cannot leave 1.5m gap and even the wider ones could overtake when there's gaps in the oncoming traffic.

I wouldn't actually even call it "overtaking" when it is that sort of urban situation with multiple lanes full of traffic moving at different speeds.
So what would you call it? Drag racing?

I really don't think the trucker did anything wrong there. He stayed entirely within his own lane, and was only passing the cyclists slowly. The cyclists weren't doing anything wrong either, as they were also entirely within their own lane.

But any "blame" for the gap being less than 1.5m rests equally on both IMO - but mainly on the road designers who made lanes so narrow that large vehicles CANNOT leave a 1.5m gap to the edge of their lane.
Yes, the road designers share some responsibility for producing a trap of a layout, probably under pressure from politicians who spent decades pushing to maximise throughput at the expense of everything including lives, but I feel that the silly trucker had two options more than the cyclists to avoid the danger: wait until it was possible to steer wider; or not overtake. From the looks of them, the cyclists could not really speed up to 20mph to make overtaking unnecessary and legally impossible; and riding narrower only works up to a point (once singled out and in secondary, they couldn't go narrower safely) and would be against current advice anyway.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
Because it describes a manoeuvre in which you pull back over to the left once you've passed. Hence an overtake by my definition.

However, I will say that the first sentence of rule 268 could be interpreted as contradicting my definition. It's almost as if the HC could do with some clarification.


Hwc 268 relates to motorways
 

Alex321

Veteran
Location
South Wales
Well, firstly, unless there's traffic in the left lane to overtake, you're turning right or the left lane is somehow restricted, one should normally be in the left lane and not middle-lane-hogging.

Secondly, I can't see how phrases in the HC like "use the middle lane only for overtaking or turning right", "Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right", "you may use the middle lanes or the right-hand lane to overtake" and many more have a sensible interpretation if passing in an adjacent lane isn't an overtake.
Those are all predicated on regular dual-carriageway type situations, not the urban multiple lanes with markings for different directions situation we had here.
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
Yes, and all the traffic in lane 2 in the video should pull back over to the left once they've finished passing things in the left lane. Hence they're overtaking by any definition.
That's not how lanes work in a busy city. For example you can use the left lane to go straight ahead, but if you want the ring road west you are encouraged to use the right lane. Left lane's full of bus stops, you're not gonna weave in and out in a big lorry.

Screenshot_20220601-155800_Maps.jpg
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
Hwc 268 relates to motorways

I know, but I'm trying to consider my definition of overtaking generally rather than in any specific situation. For example, I wouldn't consider passing a 50mph middle lane hogger on the left to be overtaking, but some interpretations of rule 268 might not agree with me.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
That's not how lanes work in a busy city. For example you can use the left lane to go straight ahead, but if you want the ring road west you are encouraged to use the right lane. Left lane's full of bus stops, you're not gonna weave in and out in a big lorry.
I've driven and ridden in many busy cities. It's how lanes are supposed to work in this country, but there's a lot of incompetents abusing lanes and pretending we're in the USA where lane-sitting is the rule. If a driver can't cope with bus stops properly, should he be driving a big lorry in a busy city?
 
Does it matter what the cyclists did if the issue with the petition is about getting JV sacked for being wrong for reporting a hgv driver who close passed cyclists?
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
Does it matter what the cyclists did if the issue with the petition is about getting JV sacked for being wrong for reporting a hgv driver who close passed cyclists?
I would be surprised if the incident had been reported by JV, despite many being keen to attribute it to him just because it’s his video.

You can see from the video that one of the police officers states, “He’ll get a due care and attention for that.” That suggests to me that the officer did his job with no need for a 3rd party report.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
@mjr if we take @winjim's image posted #94 make it a set of traffic lights with the Ring Road not being a straight ahead but a right turn. There are 20 cyclists in the left lane 2 abreast stopped at the red light, but the right hand lane has a green filter by your logic nobody could over take those cyclists & make the right turn which would totally defeat the object of having the filter in the first place.

You appear to see this as very black & white, not the grey that is the HC
 

DRM

Guru
Location
West Yorks
I would be surprised if the incident had been reported by JV, despite many being keen to attribute it to him just because it’s his video.

You can see from the video that one of the police officers states, “He’ll get a due care and attention for that.” That suggests to me that the officer did his job with no need for a 3rd party report.
Quite possibly not, there will also be cameras on the truck in the windscreen, and down both sides of the vehicle, if they show that the driver went past without deviation from his/her lane, no excess speed or revs, and show PC Wobble incapable of riding in a straight line, then J.V and the Met could end up with egg on for their faces, also the rigid builders merchant truck could well be narrower than the Waitrose Artic too, so not a fair comparison
 

iandg

Legendary Member
The video should not have been shared on twitter, or, anywhere else. Our local Police Force specifically asks that video sent to them, reporting an incident, is not shared in this way.

Too many near miss videos appearing on social media for my liking. They do nothing but fuel the cyclists Vs car arguments. We all need to be more tolerant and respect all road users.
 
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boydj

Legendary Member
Location
Paisley
I don't think passing in an adjacent lane constitutes an overtake, and my interpretation of the HC would suggest the same. To my mind an overtake is a manoeuvre involving pulling out, passing and then pulling back in again. My opinion is that this sort of overtake requires greater care and a wider passing distance than simply trundling along in one's own lane.

Are you changing dictionary definitions now?
 
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