Jumping Red Lights

[w00hoo_kent]

The picture is not random it is from Ampthill a place I often pass through. Your points don't really work and unless you have awful control of your bike nothing you have said could be dangerous. Even if travelling at 30mph on a bike the distance between the wall and the lights would still give you plenty of time to make sure nothing was going to go wrong. At a more realistic speed there is absolutely no worry. A tiny fraction of red light jumps end in an accident, there are thousands of more dangerous things happening on roads by cyclists, pedestrians and motorists. It's frankly a boring topic I'll continue jumping the lights I feel it is safe to do so, others can continue waiting. Simple.

I've said it before, but it merits saying again. You can get away with an awful lot of stupid before something goes wrong.
Yeah, in ideal conditions you're going to be really unlikely to hit someone. Of course, the day you're looking to check that scaffolding, while pedalling like crazy to keep that Strava PR you've promised yourself and ignoring the red light because 'hey it was just those kids pushing the button they didn't even want to cross the road' could be the day their mate comes out of that side path on his BMX at max speed and suddenly you've not got the options you thought you had. He's going for it because he's seen the green man and he knows that means nothing's coming because he's 11 and stupid. What's your excuse? Oh, wait, it was fine yesterday.

You're right though, it's a boring topic and I'll add that you have no intention of changing what you are doing because you know there's nothing wrong with it at all and everyone else is just being overly cautious thereby making it a pretty pointless one too. Enjoy.

 

[Tim Hall]

Most likely he approaches them too slowly. Go too slow and the detectors may detect you but the software won't change the lights.

If it's a doppler detector thing I'd say yes (black box ontop of the traffic light pole). Otherwise it's induction loops in the ground. For the best chance of detection with these ride so your wheels go along the black lines. And if that doesn't work, try calling the local authority to complain the lights aren't working. I've had good results with this.

 

[PK99]

The danger from rljing comes from cars. A cyclist is far more likely to be hurt by a driver jumping a red than the cyclist jumping a red themselves.

I have had to take avoiding action as a pedestrian on numerous occasions after the traffic stream has stopped to avoid being hit by a RLJ cyclist. I cannot recall ever having had to to that for a RLJ car.

 

[Markymark]

In central London I often have to avoid being hit by a cyclist RLJing. Maybe its not that bad as the collision is easier avoided than the pedestrian/car collision due to relative speed and size.

Very annoying though.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

If it's a doppler detector thing I'd say yes (black box ontop of the traffic light pole). Otherwise it's induction loops in the ground. For the best chance of detection with these ride so your wheels go along the black lines. And if that doesn't work, try calling the local authority to complain the lights aren't working. I've had good results with this.

The bloke ?Steve Bicknell? from WSCC Highways said, on a site visit to the ones on Albion Way, that if you didn't cross the two sets of loops at 8mph or above they wouldn't trigger the lights. We pointed out that, for many people, cycling up to a red light at over 8mph is a bit counter-intuitive. He arranged for the controllers to be re-programmed. Now a cynic would say that this re-programming, especially if it was of Siemens kit, was a matter of setting the microswitches so "BICYCLE DETECTION=ON" but I'm just telling you what he told us....

 

[GrumpyGregry]

In central London I often have to avoid being hit by a cyclist RLJing. Maybe its not that bad as the collision is easier avoided than the pedestrian/car collision due to relative speed and size.

Very annoying though.

In central I've been known to "brace for impact" and knock the f*****rs off their perches.

 

[Markymark]

In central I've been known to "brace for impact" and knock the f*****rs off their perches.

I kicked the back wheel once as I kept walking (on green) and they kept cycling (on red light) across a pedestrian crossing. Didn't go out of my way to kick the wheel but certainly didn't stop my foot hitting it as I carried on walking.

 

[Tim Hall]

The bloke ?Steve Bicknell? from WSCC Highways said, on a site visit to the ones on Albion Way, that if you didn't cross the two sets of loops at 8mph or above they wouldn't trigger the lights. We pointed out that, for many people, cycling up to a red light at over 8mph is a bit counter-intuitive. He arranged for the controllers to be re-programmed. Now a cynic would say that this re-programming, especially if it was of Siemens kit, was a matter of setting the microswitches so "BICYCLE DETECTION=ON" but I'm just telling you what he told us....

Interesting stuff, thanks. One might wonder why traffic lights could be set so "BICYCLE DETECTION=OFF" (OK, some motorway entry slips are traffic light controlled, but other than that...)

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Interesting stuff, thanks. One might wonder why traffic lights could be set so "BICYCLE DETECTION=OFF" (OK, some motorway entry slips are traffic light controlled, but other than that...)

Because they can, would be all the 'reason' WSCC need.

 

[John the Monkey]

I have had to take avoiding action as a pedestrian on numerous occasions after the traffic stream has stopped to avoid being hit by a RLJ cyclist. I cannot recall ever having had to to that for a RLJ car.

Oh, come to Manchester (Fairfield St/London Road junction) or to Crewe (the big roundabout near the station, or the one at the other end of Crewe Road) and you'll see plenty.

I was driven at just the other day on the former by a nobber who was desperately keen to join the queueing traffic 20 yards or so up the road from the crossing. Apparently it was ok to drive at me, because I wasn't on the crossing (I was crossing the road, about 6 inches to the left of the metal squares marking the crossing). At another crossing in Manchester, I was nearly flattened by a bus whose driver was so irate at a car that hadn't let him out of a stop, he chased it through a red light, whilst leaning on his horn.

When they're not running the lights on those two in Crewe, they're stopping *on* the crossing, so as to be as close as possible to the traffic queueing around the roundabout, making it impossible to cross.

I don't run red lights as a cyclist. I don't particularly approve of other people doing so. However, personal experience tells me I can avoid a bike a lot easier than I can a bus or a car. A failing in me, I admit, but I find it hard to get really cross about the bikes.

 

[benb]

I have had to take avoiding action as a pedestrian on numerous occasions after the traffic stream has stopped to avoid being hit by a RLJ cyclist. I cannot recall ever having had to to that for a RLJ car.

Whilst not doubting your personal experience, as a pedestrian you are much more likely to be KSI on the pavement or crossing by a driver than a cyclist, even accounting for difference in modal share.
Only today I nearly had my toes removed at a pedestrian crossing by a driver who decided the red light was optional.

As I said earlier, going through reds at a pedestrian crossing is bang out of order, unless you can absolutely see that there is no one crossing or about to - there is one near me where for some reason it stays red for ages (amybe to sync with another light or something) so you can be waiting for quite a while after the pedestrian has finished crossing and you can see full well it is clear.

At traffic-only junctions though I can't outright condemn cyclists who jump reds. The road network is set up with contempt for cyclists, so is it any wonder some of them treat it with contempt right back.
The majority of cyclists I see jumping reds are not being any more dangerous than pulling out from a give way.

 

[PK99]

Whilst not doubting your personal experience, as a pedestrian you are much more likely to be KSI on the pavement or crossing by a driver than a cyclist, even accounting for difference in modal share.
Only today I nearly had my toes removed at a pedestrian crossing by a driver who decided the red light was optional.

.

you have missed the point of my post@

"on numerous occasions after the traffic stream has stopped to avoid being hit by a RLJ cyclist"

In London, i find that after the traffic stream has stopped at a crossing, cyclists are still a hazard i need to take care to avoid - posts by O-markey and Grumpy make essentially the same point.

I would not dispute that too many cars at the front of the traffic stream fail to stop in good time. However it is the filtering cyclist who ignores the red light, the stopped traffic and me on the crossing that I have to take action to avoid.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

I would not dispute that too many cars at the front of the traffic stream fail to stop in good time. However it is the filtering cyclist who ignores the red light, the stopped traffic and me on the crossing that I have to take action to avoid.

Yup, it's all too common for cars to 'just one more it' at traffic lights and run an amber to red change. It's far rarer for them to come up to a red light and think 'sod it, that doesn't apply to me'. Although I saw a white van do it in farking Swanley last night, obviously decided the pedestrian crossing being on red was pointless, so just drove through it. It's all too common, in London at least, to see cyclists RLJ an existing red light with little if any attempt to slow down on the lead up to it. I'd guess there's a 30% chance when I'm sat at a red light that the cycle that comes up next to me will ignore it, although far fewer fly through it at speed, probably see a couple a week.

 

[benb]

you have missed the point of my post@

"on numerous occasions after the traffic stream has stopped to avoid being hit by a RLJ cyclist"

In London, i find that after the traffic stream has stopped at a crossing, cyclists are still a hazard i need to take care to avoid - posts by O-markey and Grumpy make essentially the same point.

I would not dispute that too many cars at the front of the traffic stream fail to stop in good time. However it is the filtering cyclist who ignores the red light, the stopped traffic and me on the crossing that I have to take action to avoid.

Yup, it's all too common for cars to 'just one more it' at traffic lights and run an amber to red change. It's far rarer for them to come up to a red light and think 'sod it, that doesn't apply to me'. Although I saw a white van do it in ****ing Swanley last night, obviously decided the pedestrian crossing being on red was pointless, so just drove through it. It's all too common, in London at least, to see cyclists RLJ an existing red light with little if any attempt to slow down on the lead up to it. I'd guess there's a 30% chance when I'm sat at a red light that the cycle that comes up next to me will ignore it, although far fewer fly through it at speed, probably see a couple a week.

I didn't miss that point, and in case I haven't already made it abundantly clear I abhor cyclists who go through a pedestrian crossing while or just before pedestrians are crossing. I detest anyone who puts someone else in danger just for their own convenience.

It doesn't alter the fact that as a pedestrian you are much more likely to be KSI by a RLJing driver than a RLJing cyclist.

 

[Dan B]

Yup, it's all too common for cars to 'just one more it' at traffic lights and run an amber to red change. It's far rarer for them to come up to a red light and think 'sod it, that doesn't apply to me'

Although strangely, such behaviour is entirely unsurprising at zebra crossings