Just been to London...

[Dan B]

Not pointing this towards Bollo, but is it reasonable to stop for someone waiting to cross the road? Because there are zebra crossings which people don't stop for, pedestrian crossings which people don't stop for... both of which I would consider reasonable for people to stop for, yet the don't.

Most people stop for zebras, in my experience. Those that don't can surely be caught just as effectively by zebra cameras as they could by red light cameras, can't they?

The shared space thing is certainly interesting. I can believe the "bullying" bit, though: anyone on foot is going to be a bit cautious around 1 ton cars sharing their space at three times their speed, and there are certainly drivers (and for that matter cyclists) who will take advantage of that. I think you'd have to design them quite carefully to keep max speeds low, and if you had presumption of liability on the drivers side in accidents I daresay that would also concentrate the mind.

 

[Bollo]

Well, certainly. But, cars being wider, so there are probably fewer opportunities for a car driver to safely and considerately cross a junction when the lights are against him anyway. Motorcyclists more likely, perhaps. But at 3am when the road is deserted, though, sure, why not?

Don't see what width has to do with it? You could also argue that cars are able to accelerate out of trouble more easily than the average cyclist. And remember, the driver will judge himself to be sufficiently skilled.....

Deserted roads - sure, I'm not going to lose sleep. But the problem in London at least is that there's now a belief amongst a section of cyclists that you should never stop at red. It's an insult to your righteous stuff!

 

[Dan B]

Don't see what width has to do with it?

Well, some people have talked about left turns on red, which arguably makes sense if you're on a thin bicycle taking up a secondary position or joining a gutter cycle lane on the road you're turning into, but can't really be done if your car fills the lane

Deserted roads - sure, I'm not going to lose sleep. But the problem in London at least is that there's now a belief amongst a section of cyclists that you should never stop at red. It's an insult to your righteous stuff!

I think we are probably in agreement that that section of cyclists is (are?) to put it bluntly, wrong.

 

[Crankarm]

Well all I can say about RLJers is that you are all kcufing hypocrits. The occasion you are knocked down it will be completely your fault, but I bet you try and claim the other party was travelling too fast and or not paying sufficient attention which resulted in you suffering the injuries you did. You have no place criticising other road users when you clearly choose to disobey important traffic signals. If I witness your demise I will make sure that my statement conveys this. I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. The law applies to everyone for their safety so we can all get along in a mass transport network irrespective of choice of vehicle or if you are just a pedestrian. For some one to arbitrarily decide.........."Oh, I won't follow this rule today" is ballcocks. You are a menace and I am sick of being tarred with the same brush that you are viewed by other road users, that because a large minority of cyclists RLJ, cycle on the pavements, are irresponsible, who break the law, have no regard for anyone elses’ safety and are rude and aggressive then all cyclists are the same. This is wrong and we should do everything to educate or shame you. I don't like the damage you are doing to the image of cycling and cyclists. I have already had one scare where a RLJing cyclist nearly knocked me off as I was legitimately crossing a controlled junction. Should it happen again I am ready to take out any cyclist who tries it again. So be warned RLJers.......your fellow cyclist might be your nemesis….

 

[Greenbank]

Most people stop for zebras, in my experience. Those that don't can surely be caught just as effectively by zebra cameras as they could by red light cameras, can't they?

The law doesn't say that you should stop if someone is *waiting* to cross, only if they are actually on the crossing.

It's convention and politeness that means people should stop for someone obviously waiting to cross.

 

[hackbike 666]

Originally Posted by Bollo
The consequences may not be as serious as excessive speed but the thinking that leads to that behaviour is similar. Its the same attitude that some drivers have to mobile phone use, usually based on an inflated opinion of their own abilities and a belief that the 'big one' is never going to happen to them.
+1

We all think we are better than we actually are and RLJers are no exception to that rule,then again I dislike moron mobile phone users who think they can drive,more.

 

[thomas]

To get a head-start over the cars I normally start crossing when the green man has disappeared and there are no peds. On this occasion green lights were not on until I was half-way across the junction. But fortunately the Cops did not stop me!

I once made that mistake. It was completely accidental though as I don't red light jump. I hadn't really used the lights before, but had been there a while and was pretty sure it was my go. Started to get ready to go, wasn't paying attention for a moment as I pulled away, and realised the lights weren't changing. Thankfully I didn't cause any problems and I put my hand up to the cars that started to pull away as it was a silly mistake.

That was a few years ago now actually.

 

[thomas]

In fairness I only do it at lights where I know the sequences.

Yep. Mine was a silly slip a few years ago which I can only just about remember.