Killer cyclists

[Alex321]

The highway code Rule H1 says this:
But those in charge of vehicles that can cause the greatest harm in the event of a collision bear the greatest responsibility to take care and reduce the danger they pose to others.

Alliston was charged with manslaughter, although acquitted on that count. How often is it that a driver gets charged with manslaughter?

The legislative time wasted on this pandering to the Daily Mail crowd would be far better spent on measures to actually improve road safety.

I'm not sure how often a motorist is charged with manslaughter, but it certainly happens
And the CPS guidance on this is here:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-charging

They also changed the law recently (effective from April this year I think) to increase the maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving from 14 years to life, so making the sentencing range similar to that for manslaughter.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The legislative time wasted on this pandering to the Daily Mail crowd would be far better spent on measures to actually improve road safety.

This. It's just a PR exercise.

A large number, and I'm going to hazard a guess that it's less than a majority, but a significant minority, of drivers would be very happy for me to be killed while riding my bike, and it's only the fact that it would make a mess of their car and their insurance that keeps them from doing the job themselves. That's the target audience for this.

 

[Solocle]

I'm not sure how often a motorist is charged with manslaughter, but it certainly happens
And the CPS guidance on this is here:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-charging

They also changed the law recently (effective from April this year I think) to increase the maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving from 14 years to life, so making the sentencing range similar to that for manslaughter.

Some data on successful prosecutions.

Of the 1850 road deaths per year, 352 prosecutions. 1 in 5 deaths lead to a prosecution - of which half reach the dangerous driving threshold.

Manslaughter is an option in the most serious dangerous driving cases - out over 150 per year. There was the case recently with the police officer being dragged along that resulted in a manslaughter conviction. But we're talking about a handful of cases.

If treatment was equal, then you might expect one cyclist to be convicted of manslaughter every 100 years.

The resistance to this is because cyclists convicted under the new offences are likely to face tougher sentences than motorists convicted of the same offence, if the state of the justice system is to go by. Even though the highway code apportions greater responsibility to the drivers of motor vehicles.

It's PR with virtually no benefit whatsoever.

 

[Alex321]

The resistance to this is because cyclists convicted under the new offences are likely to face tougher sentences than motorists convicted of the same offence, if the state of the justice system is to go by.

What makes you believe that?

I don't see any reason to believe sentences will be significantly different.

 

[Profpointy]

What makes you believe that?

I don't see any reason to believe sentences will be significantly different.

Have you not followed the relatively recent case where the cyclist in London collided with and killed a pedestrian and got sent to prison for manslaughter. I think it would be at most 50/50 if a motorist would even have been prosecuted for careless driving under the circumstances in question

 

[Alex321]

Have you not followed the relatively recent case where the cyclist in London collided with and killed a pedestrian and got sent to prison for manslaughter. I think it would be at most 50/50 if a motorist would even have been prosecuted for careless driving under the circumstances in question

Which case would that be?

I'm not aware of any recently where a cyclist has been convicted of manslaughter. There have been a few where the cyclist was acquitted of manslaughter, but found guilty of "causing bodily harm by wanton or furious driving" - which carries a maximum sentence of two years, which is what this is all about.

I'm not aware of any such case where a motorist would not have even been prosecuted for a similar death. All of the cases I am aware of, the motorist would almost certainly have been prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving, never mind careless, since in every case the judge has made remarks such as "you showed a wanton disregard for the risks".

 

[T4tomo]

I think

I'm not convinced you do, I think you just type....

 

[PK99]

Just stumbled across this reputable source of data:

Between 2005 and 2015, some 32 pedestrians died and 820 suffered serious injuries after colliding with cyclists, according to a report by charity Cycling UK.

 

[Dogtrousers]

A possibly more sensible use of resources would be to sort out the buggers muddle that is electric bike/scooter regulation legislation and put in place enforcement actions against illegal use.

But that won't trigger the cyclist hating section of the electorate which the sole purpose of this.

 

[T4tomo]

But that won't trigger the cyclist hating section of the electorate which the sole purpose of this.

to be honest I don't think we are faraway from escooter-ists being more hated than cyclists.

 

[DRM]

You keep on about the numbers.

That is pretty well completely irrelevant.

All the change is doing is making sure that the range of sentences available for causing death by dangerous cycling is similar to the range for causing death by dangerous driving.

At present, the law means that regardless of how rare it is, any cyclist causing death by dangerous cycling CANNOT be sentenced to as much as a driver can for causing death by careless driving (never mind causing death by dangerous driving).

If you think they should not be introducing this change, then yiou think it is correct that cyclists should not get similar sentences. Why do you think that?

Because it’s not a problem, not a blight on society, there aren’t excessive cases, it’s just pointless noise, pandering to the DM’s readership, all it’s succeeding in doing is fuelling the hatred and abuse of people on bikes, if you’re happy to have motorists treat you like a non entity, that it doesn’t matter if they flatten you, because you’re a nobody, a nothing, just a nuisance, then fine, it’s making things worse for cyclists, not levelling anything up, it’s a knee jerk reaction to nothing, if there was loads of pedestrians being killed, fair enough, but there isn’t

 

[DRM]

This. It's just a PR exercise.

A large number, and I'm going to hazard a guess that it's less than a majority, but a significant minority, of drivers would be very happy for me to be killed while riding my bike, and it's only the fact that it would make a mess of their car and their insurance that keeps them from doing the job themselves. That's the target audience for this.

You’ve hit the nail firmly on the head

 

[PK99]

A possibly more sensible use of resources would be to sort out the buggers muddle that is electric bike/scooter regulation legislation and put in place enforcement actions against illegal use.

But that won't trigger the cyclist hating section of the electorate which the sole purpose of this.

No, it is not the whole purpose of this.

listen to Kim Briggs' widower.

I'm a cyclist and 100% in favour of the proposed equalization of legal responsibilities.

 

[PK99]

A large number, and I'm going to hazard a guess that it's less than a majority, but a significant minority, of drivers would be very happy for me to be killed while riding my bike, and it's only the fact that it would make a mess of their car and their insurance that keeps them from doing the job themselves. That's the target audience for this.

Complete fecking paranoid nonsence.

 

[Mike_P]

Saturday's Times carried a report on Shapps article in the DM noting a report in 2021 to the Parliament Advisory Council for Transport Safety which had equated each pedestrian killed by a cyclist to 65 by car drivers. The report to the Council had noted 470 incidents of pedestrians being killed in 2019, 305 by car drivers, 51 by HGV drivers and 5 by cyclists. The other 99 are not mentioned. Have to wonder how accurate that is as 5 into 305 goes 61 times not 65. It then continues referring to only seven road deaths being attributable to cyclists in the (unspecified) year compared to 721 being killed by car drivers. That is 103 killings by car drivers to one by a cyclist.