Knackered bearings after 4,300 miles?

[EasyPeez]

Hi,

Any advice/experience on this much appreciated.

I recently took my 'best' bike back to the shop I bought it from for work on the rear hub. I had a problem with the hub very early on after getting caught out in my first downpour in the spring, when it started to make a grinding sound where the hub meets the cassette. I now wish I'd returned the bike at that stage, but instead I opted to get a friend who runs a local LBS to have a look. He cleaned it out and it seemed to be fine thereafter, though he said that the freehub seemed far too tight at that time. Having got caught out in another downpour a few weeks ago the hub more or less seized up, making a horrid grinding sound and allowing the wheel 3 or 4 rotations at most from a strong turn of the cranks.

It seems there might be some issues with the wheels themselves, or at least a batch of them as others seem to have had the same problem -
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/problem-fulcrum-racing-sport-346908.html

Anyway, bike shop rang today and said the rear wheel needs both sets of bearings replacing. The mechanic then said "Your bike is very clean, do you powerwash it?"
I replied that I didn't, and never have, but that I clean it by hand with sponge and cloth after every ride, and enquired why he would ask. He said that the bearings are also on their way out on the front hub, and there is some play developing in the bottom bracket, so new bearings here too would be a good idea, hence he wondered if I had damaged the bearings by forcing water and grit in with a power-washer.

I am riding Fulcrum Racing Sport DB CX wheels. I weigh 9.5 stone. The bike has been ridden hard this year, doing 4,300 miles on a mix of good and bad roads and up and down very steep hills from time to time. I try to only ever ride it in the dry. I have been caught out in 4 or 5 heavy downpours but it has never seen a gritted road.

I would be grateful for advice on any of the following:

1) I appreciate that the wheels are entry-level/stock but I thought Fulcrum were a decent brand, and this model wheel comes specced on bikes between £1,000-3,000. Is it normal to replace wheel bearings after just 4.5k miles on this level of wheel?
2) Is it normal to need to replace BB bearings after just 4.5k miles?
3) The mech said he'd need to find the parts in the catalogue and get back to me about cost. Given that labour should be free on this one, what should I expect to be paying for BB bearings and wheel bearings x2?
4) Does anyone else ride Fulcrum Racing Sports and if so have you had any issues with the hubs?
5) Given his question about the power-washing, are there other factors that could be causing damage to the bearings that I'm missing? I wondered about faulty seals, but wouldn't the mech have picked up on those if that was the problem?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[EasyPeez]

PS - I know I really should learn to service my own hubs and BB, but I don't have a vice or the right spanners.
I started road cycling back in March 2015 and knew nothing about servicing a bike. Since then I have learned how to change tyres, change a chain, index my gears, adjust the front derailleur and service my headset, but remain clueless when it comes to hubs & BB! Cheers.

 

[mrbikerboy73]

I'm afraid I can't answer all of your questions and this is really only my opinion, but I don't feel that hub bearings and BB should be failing at that mileage. I've covered far more miles on bikes in all weathers without any problems. I've never ridden any Fulcrums so I can't comment. I also appreciate that some manufacturers may be a little economical with the grease on assembly!
Cup and cone hub bearings are a relatively straight forward concept and you can buy specific spanners for the job fairly cheaply. I'm sure there are tutorials on the net to help. BB's do vary, some are easier than others. Good on you for having the willingness to learn about bike maintenance. It will save you money and also give you a sense of satisfaction from a job done well and done by yourself

 

[fossyant]

Cheaper wheels don't usually have the best of sealing !

 

[Ajax Bay]

@EasyPeez Almost exactly a year ago, before you decided on these wheels you sought advice here:
"Anyone have any experience of [Fulcrum Racing Sport DB CX] wheels? Was just wondering if anyone's clocked up some decent mileage on a set yet and if so how they're shaping up for durability and speed. Are Fulcrums well-rated generally?"

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/fulcrum-racing-sport-db-cx.173483/

Look at the advice @SatNavSaysStraightOn offered:

I have the fulcrum racing 7 CX's. Stood up to everything I have thrown at them including some off rotating better suited to an mtb. Still perfectly true. Only down side with the cx's is that you have to replace the bearings more often and there are 6 bearings in mind between the 2 wheels but once you have to bearing codes they only cost about £15 to get all of them from non-cycling shops online.

and

"On my model the instructions quite clearly state that the bearings should be changed every 5,000km for the CX models and every 10,000km for the 'normal' version of the same wheel."

So why are you surprised when you push on to 7000km and the bearings seem to need replacing? You've said:

The bike has been ridden hard this year, doing 4,300 miles on a mix of good and bad roads

Just replace them. As for the BB you don't say what sort it is but I assume H'tech II. They're inexpensive: a halfpenny a mile. Do it yourself or get it done.

 

[mrbikerboy73]

[As for the BB you don't say what sort it is but I assume H'tech II. They're inexpensive: a halfpenny a mile. Do it yourself or get it done.

I changed a Hollowtech II a couple of weeks back on a cheap MTB I bought. The BB and the tool cost £20 and it took about 10-15 minutes and I'd never done one before...

 

[EasyPeez]

So why are you surprised when you push on to 7000km and the bearings seem to need replacing?

Thanks for the memory-jog, @Ajax Bay!
I guess I am/was surprised because
a) I had forgotten all about that thread from over a year ago
b) I have friends with different wheels who have done the same distances as me with no signs of worn bearings yet

but mostly c) because the mech on the phone seemed very surprised that all the bearings had gone/were going in what he suggested was "not a huge amount of miles, not distances you'd normally expect to wear bearings out anyway" and thought I had ruined them by power-washing!

The BB and the tool cost £20

Is it just any pedal spanner and the correct type of BB spanner that you need? And did you find it easier and not much more expensive to replace the whole bottom bracket rather than just the bearings? Cheers.

the bearings should be changed every 5,000km for the CX models and every 10,000km for the 'normal' version of the same wheel."

I still don't get this. @SatNavSaysStraightOn - I can't find this online or in any of the docs I was given for the bike. Would it be possible for you send me a link or a scan at some ppint please? I'd like to ask Fulcrum why this is, as it seems at odds with what you'd expect, and with what the Genesis blurb says about extended bearing life from the CX double-sealed hubs.
Thanks.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Bear in mind what your aim is here, OP: to get the bike back so you can enjoy riding it in good working order, not wh***ing about why hubs or bearings have not lasted as long as you might have hoped. Who'd do you want to listen to? People on here (including those like @SatNavSaysStraightOn who had used these exact wheels for 1000s of km and adviced/warned you before you even chose the wheels (as an upgrade?)) or

the mech on the phone [who] seemed very surprised that all the bearings had gone/were going in what he suggested was "not a huge amount of miles, not distances you'd normally expect to wear bearings out anyway"

Is it just any pedal spanner and the correct type of BB spanner that you need? And did you find it easier and not much more expensive to replace the whole bottom bracket rather than just the bearings?

Google: "hollowtech 2 bottom bracket installation". Don't need a 'pedal spanner'. The BB comes as is and screws in, with no serviceable parts (eg ball bearings/cups/cones). You need the tool, and if you get a new BB (as I just have), be aware the diameter is slightly less but there's a 'shim' in with the BB to allow you to use the 'normal' tool. As @mrbikerboy73 said:

it took about 10-15 minutes and I'd never done one before...

 

[EasyPeez]

before you even chose the wheels (as an upgrade?

No, they came as stock on the bike, just wanted to make sure they weren't turkeys before buying the bike as I couldn't find any reviews online.

Google: "hollowtech 2 bottom bracket installation". Don't need a 'pedal spanner'.

Cheers, done that. I clearly had the wrong idea about how pedals came off so it was good to see how that's done.

if you get a new BB (as I just have)

I believe mine's a FSA BB-4000 MegaExo, 68mm rather than the Hollowtech II. I assume the procedure for replacement is much the same. Looks like the 4000 MegaExo is considerably more expensive and reviews are pretty poor . If reviewers' experiences are anything to go by it looks like I've done well to manage over 4000 miles. How many miles did you get out of your BB, if you don't mind me asking?
And forgive my ignorance, but is there a simple way to find out which other BBs would be compatible with my crankset?

be aware the diameter is slightly less but there's a 'shim' in with the BB to allow you to use the 'normal' tool

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Ajax Bay]

How many miles did you get out of your BB

I have not yet replaced it with the one I've just got. The current one is the original (1981) SAKAE. Has had regular services when I've been riding it (got the bike in '83) and I'm afraid I haven't counted the miles. But it started to grumble only a few hundred miles after servicing and there was a small amount of pitting in the cup. Pity: I love keeping the vintage parts working well.

is there a simple way to find out which other BBs would be compatible with my crankset

Not familiar with the FSA BB-4000 MegaExo (thank goodness) but don't think you can use an alternative BB without replacing your crankset as well. However this brilliant thread from @gbb gives some hope: it may (only) be the plastic bits.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/fsa-megaexo-omega-bb-bianchi-overhaul-pt-2.70132/

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/alternative-to-fsa-bottom-bracket-bb-4000.158565/

 

[EasyPeez]

I have not yet replaced it with the one I've just got. The current one is the original (1981) SAKAE. Has had regular services when I've been riding it (got the bike in '83) and I'm afraid I haven't counted the miles. But it started to grumble only a few hundred miles after servicing and there was a small amount of pitting in the cup. Pity: I love keeping the vintage parts working well.



Not familiar with the FSA BB-4000 MegaExo (thank goodness) but don't think you can use an alternative BB without replacing your crankset as well. However this brilliant thread from @gbb gives some hope: it may (only) be the plastic bits.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/fsa-megaexo-omega-bb-bianchi-overhaul-pt-2.70132/

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/alternative-to-fsa-bottom-bracket-bb-4000.158565/

Hmmm. Thanks for that. Nice bit of work there @gbb

As the bike is currently 40 miles away I'm not really in a position to pop out the BB and have a look at the top-hat sections. I'll give the mechanic a ring and see if he knows of any other BBs that are compatible but it's not looking good from my internet searches.
If that's the case I think I'll tell him to hold fire on the BB.
I'm due a bikefit in the Spring so there's a chance I'll be getting told I ought to be riding a different crank length. If that's the case I reckon I'll be better off ordering a new crankset and different model BB anyway.
Thanks again for your guidance @Ajax Bay

 

[Pale Rider]

A solution for your future riding may be ceramic hubs - they are known for their long life.

Not much point building those into your existing wheels.

Hope is a well-regarded brand in this market, which leads me to suggest Hope Hoops, although others will have to point you in the direction of which of the many available would be most suitable.

http://www.hopetech.com/products/wheels/

 

[EasyPeez]

A solution for your future riding may be ceramic hubs - they are known for their long life.

Not much point building those into your existing wheels.

Hope is a well-regarded brand in this market, which leads me to suggest Hope Hoops, although others will have to point you in the direction of which of the many available would be most suitable.

http://www.hopetech.com/products/wheels/

Thanks. I'm aware of Hope (and maybe even more so Chris King? Expensive though!) as being highly-rated for components, hubs in particular. As you say though, no point in looking at these with regard to my Fulcrums and having bought 2 bikes in 2015 I think it'll be some time before a new wheelset is a possibility. Cheers.

 

[Drago]

You can men the pitting in the bearing cup by filling the pits with araldite and sanding it back. Ballache of a job, but works well if you can't find compatible replacements or you're an originality freak.

 

[gbb]

Hmmm. Thanks for that. Nice bit of work there @gbb

As the bike is currently 40 miles away I'm not really in a position to pop out the BB and have a look at the top-hat sections. I'll give the mechanic a ring and see if he knows of any other BBs that are compatible but it's not looking good from my internet searches.
If that's the case I think I'll tell him to hold fire on the BB.
I'm due a bikefit in the Spring so there's a chance I'll be getting told I ought to be riding a different crank length. If that's the case I reckon I'll be better off ordering a new crankset and different model BB anyway.
Thanks again for your guidance @Ajax Bay

Have I posted on this one Eazy ?..I didnt think I had, but anyway...
I see you're having BB problems...see one of my older posts re BB4000s...
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/fsa-bb-replacement-bianchi.69694/
The bearings are poor, IIRC mine lasted circa 1800 miles before they went...but if you read the post attached, you'll see BB4000 outboard bearings have a design flaw (IMO).. the crank doesnt actually come into contact with the bearing, theres a plastic top hat sleeve between the two. Mine had disintegrated, giving the impression od a collapsed bearing. You can buy them for a few quid, the post goes into better detail I think.