I've just been down to Paul Hewitt's in Leyland for a bike fitting before shelling out for a new road bike and he uses the 'knee over pedal spindle' (K-o-p-s) fitting parameter (for want of a better term). I've been with Mike Burrows on this i.e. what's special about vertically above the pedal axle on the level when as soon as you start to climb a hill, you'll be tilted back thus the knee will no longer be vertically over the pedal spindle and, after all, it's going up hill when you're likely to want every watt you can muster. And why do climbers move back on their saddle when climbing which moves the knee even further behind the pedal? And how do you explain what we do on recumbents? Anyway, with a fit which included k-o-p-s, there's a noticeable difference when pedalling (and this was just on the jig) compared to my current set-up, which was what you might call 'ad-hoc', i.e. bits from another bike (frame kaput) onto a new cheap frame et voila - a new road bike . So it's going to be interesting to see how/whether this translates into more power on the hills on the new bike. Does anyone else have strong feelings about k-o-p-s?