Least dorkiest hi viz for civilian clothed commuters?

[glenn forger]

Wear a seat belt in a car? Because most of the time I feel safer, especially when at high speed.

there's the problem. Hi vis is another way of facilitating drivers speeding. Think about why the collision rate increased after seat belt legislation. Drivers who feel safer take more risks. Hi vis is an extension of that, drivers want to drive fast, everyone else must adapt.

 

[mjr]

"Ought" being the operative word here. The thing is, do they?

If they're only watching motorists, there's nothing you can do short of dressing up as a car!

But at night, your lights and, especially, your reflectors, should make you pretty clear. I would question whether its actually during the day that you need the hi viz (???)

Hi-viz only offers any benefits over reflectors during the day. Wearing it at night is rather pointless because the Stokes Shift won't happen - or even worse than pointless as Chartreuse Yellow shows up as dull grey under a couple street lights, rather than the solid black outline of someone wearing a dark coat.

 

[vickster]

Ha ha. Seriously, stand at one end of a long street in daylight and try to spot a cyclist in a) normal clothes and b) fluorescent clothes in amongst the heaving masses. Which do you see first? (This isn't the same as 'which is safer' because drivers ought to be able to see and avoid a cyclist when within, say, 20 metres of them.



"Ought" being the operative word here. The thing is, do they?



But at night, your lights and, especially, your reflectors, should make you pretty clear. I would question whether its actually during the day that you need the hi viz (???)



Wear a seat belt in a car? Because most of the time I feel safer, especially when at high speed. But then again I hate my modern car boing at me becasue I'm driver at 10 mph in the car park or

No wear a night vision jacket over another jacket. They are quite warm

 

[jefmcg]

But, there is no evidence that wearing a seat belt saves lives

Why has no one challenged this? Google thinks they do, and while I found one article that talked about risk compensation when I searched, most against seat belts were about being trapped in cars, libertarian freedoms or - my favourite - they were invented by insurance companies to snap your spine in a high speed collision so you would die and they wouldn't have to pay for rehabilitation.

Do you have sources for this? I found something by John Adams, but his methodology is roundly dismissed here http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/8/2/e1.full

One thing seems pretty clear, if Princess Diana had had enough sense to buckle up, she would likely still be a thorn in the side of the Royal family.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

I would choose a Sam Browne belt over the standard builders vest on the basis that the world and its dog wear the builders vest type, nobody else tends to wear a Sam Browne belt so along with pedal reflectors it is more likely to ping a drivers consciousness (if at all) as a bike and potentially more likely to be in the road rather than jogger, council/builder etc, dog walker, delivery operative, bus driver..... in the tabard type who are as likely to be on the pavement as anywhere else.

 

[Tin Pot]

Hi

Am just curious what people think about hi viz. I've never used a helmet or hi viz but recently I've started a commute in a new area and the drivers are very laissez faire about driving safety and quite scary at times. I don't want to wear cycling gear (Lycra etc) but is a Sam Browne belt really dorky on top of a suit or dark overcoat?

I bought the Sam Browne belt as I don't like the look of the completely enveloped hi viz clothing and I thought that the belt was less dorky about cycling safety like a vest. However, a colleague did comment that I looked like a giant child on a cycling safety course! (So much for my view on dorkiness?!)

I know there are lots of choices, but for clarity, let's just say which is LEAST dorkiest:

1 sam browne belt
eg http://www.preseli.biz/product-reflective-sam-browne-belt-532.html

2 workman's vest
eg http://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/LX602-manufacture-100-poly-fabric-meet_60289273366.html

I hate hi viz.

I really hate it when runners wear it.

The world has fallen for a Fools and Horses scam.

 

[Inertia]

I hate hi viz.

I really hate it when runners wear it.

The world has fallen for a Fools and Horses scam.

You must love it when you see a chain of kids in high viz being led by their teacher along 'dangerous' roads.

 

[Milkfloat]

I would choose a Sam Browne belt over the standard builders vest on the basis that the world and its dog wear the builders vest type, nobody else tends to wear a Sam Browne belt so along with pedal reflectors it is more likely to ping a drivers consciousness (if at all) as a bike and potentially more likely to be in the road rather than jogger, council/builder etc, dog walker, delivery operative, bus driver..... in the tabard type who are as likely to be on the pavement as anywhere else.

But don't you worry that the drivers will have so many tears of laughter in their eyes after they clock you wearing a Sam Browne that they crash into you?

 

[philepo]

That HSE report does not make a link between the wearing of Hi Viz in the workplace and the long term downward trend in fatalities (although, in the last 7 years, the picture is less clear).

I take it that you are proposing a causal link between the donning of Hi Viz and the reduction in fatalities in the workplace?

Yes, but there is no solid evidence (same as seat belts) because there are so many confounding factors plus to do it properly you need a control consisting of dead fluroscent cyclists/builders/seat belt non-wearers. That is frowned upon in science research.

there's the problem. Hi vis is another way of facilitating drivers speeding. Think about why the collision rate increased after seat belt legislation. Drivers who feel safer take more risks. Hi vis is an extension of that, drivers want to drive fast, everyone else must adapt.

That's what I fear we must do, but that also includes helmets I guess and end with compulsion because the minority who are left not want ting comply become a vulnerable group that must be protected (I hate this idea too btw)

I would say helmets are more analogous because that's a safety design that also means you are safer WHEN THE CRASH HAPPENS but not necessarily a way to reduce the risk of it happening in the first place.

Mod note: there is a separate thread for helmet discussions - if you wish to respond to this part of the post, please do it in the dedicated thread.

Why has no one challenged this? Google thinks they do, and while I found one article that talked about risk compensation when I searched, most against seat belts were about being trapped in cars, libertarian freedoms or - my favourite - they were invented by insurance companies to snap your spine in a high speed collision so you would die and they wouldn't have to pay for rehabilitation.

Do you have sources for this? I found something by John Adams, but his methodology is roundly dismissed here http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/8/2/e1.full

One thing seems pretty clear, if Princess Diana had had enough sense to buckle up, she would likely still be a thorn in the side of the Royal family.

1 John Adams is a professor at UCL. Diane Thompson is researcher (with no PhD that i can see) at a private company: Harborview Injury Prevention and Research. His methodology was not "roundly dismissed" in any meaningful or sound way.
2 Sources everywhere but it is difficult to supply evidence for because you need a control consisting of dead cyclists
3 Yes they work for the individual at that instant in time. But that isn't the point

 

[Tin Pot]

You must love it when you see a chain of kids in high viz being led by their teacher along 'dangerous' roads.

It's frickin hilarious!

But I do like the idea of a walking bus.

 

[ianrauk]

I hate hi viz.

I really hate it when runners wear it.

The world has fallen for a Fools and Horses scam.

I hate it when children walking to school wear it.
It's an abomination.

Edit: beaten to it.

 

[RichK]

I passed a lady walking two greyhounds this morning... you've guessed it - they were in hi-viz jackets!

 

[Tim Hall]

It's frickin hilarious!

But I do like the idea of a walking bus.

There is a (marginal) argument that cladding teenies in hi viz makes it easier for their minders to spot them when they make a break for it.

 

[jefmcg]

2 Sources everywhere but it is difficult to supply evidence for because you need a control consisting of dead cyclists

What? I was asking about seatbelts. I can't see the need to kill any cyclists. I'm starting to think you are the sort of person who would ask an internet forum for fashion tips.

 

[Tim Hall]

I hate it when children walking to school wear it.
It's an abomination.

Edit: beaten to it.

I was at a meeting the other day where I was told that my Scouts would need hi viz "of course" to take part in an activity planned for this coming Saturday. The activity? Walking, on pavements around town between the various Scout huts. I challenged this, um, vociferously, making the point that it gives the message that walking is a dangerous activity. Everyone looked at me like I was a bit odd. It was pointed out that DofE participants have to wear Hi viz on their expeditions. I said I was going to write to Prince Philip next, to sort him out.