Left school today.

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

postman

Squire
Location
,Leeds
6th June 1966.Postman left school.My Dad gave me a week off then told me i HAD to get a job.Well we did in those days,none of this i'll go on the benefit malarky,let someone else fund my lifestyle.40 years and two months later.I retired thanks to RM wanting shut of a few good staff.
In The Times on sunday i noticed 40,000 more staff are going to have to go.As they downsize the staff numbers .Only the NHS employ more people.Soon the Privatisation Bill will be passed and it will all go tits up.

R.I.P old pal G.P.O.
 

PaulB

Legendary Member
Location
Colne
I left school today. Just before the police got there, thankfully.
whistling.gif
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
Postman - the employment market and the world is nothing like 1966. A lot has changed in over four decades.

Being on benefits is hardly a lavish lifestyle and is not as easy as you've been led to believe but we've been through this before.

The same old amount of work is around, in fact more tasks are about in likelihood - however, they're getting rid of people in so many areas (not just RM) and getting one person to do the job of 4. NHS isn't employing more people-lots of job freezes currently and the plans are for a whole layer of job losses.

So where have these jobs gone? Where are they going? This is going to add to the benefits claimants as people become unemployed- it's not a choice or simply people being scroungers as the trash papers would have you believe.

Count yourself as lucky- you probably have better pensions/redundancy package then those being booted out right now into a stagnant/none existent job market.

I understand the sentiment though - you give a lot to an organisation and then at times they can turn round and pick you off...
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
Just a quick re-read:

Your post seems to contradict itself- you bemoan the benefits system yet are annoyed about the NHS becoming privatised.

The NHS being free and subsidised is in effect the same category as the benefits system.

The state safety net - social and civic provisions.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
Reading postman's thread made me realise it's a while since I posted a letter or visited my post office and until emails took off I used to go to the village Post Office nearly every day to post letters, get parcels of drawings weighed, buy stamps, get tax discs and the like.

Same with the bank and my local branch!
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
Back to Royal Mail
Archie__tect - no doubt emails have bitten off a large amount of what would have been letters -

The system which was negotiated which allowed the profitable end of deliveries (couriering larger items and ebay packets etc) to be shunted out to private companies has really impacted on the delivery service within RM is my understanding. However, it feels that a political stance has been taken a while back to privatise RM and steps and negotiations were working towards this to erode the service etc talking of competitive pricing etc but all it means is people get paid less or there are less people to do the jobs.

As for the mechanisation of customer services - those tills that you swipe your goods through at the supermarket, it's another subtle way to remove more people doing jobs and they're not necessarily more efficient, useful or nice. I'd prefer a person frankly.
 
OP
OP
postman

postman

Squire
Location
,Leeds
I was invited by a floor walker to use one of those self service tills last week.I thought at the time someones job goes here.Why did i use it because the only basket till ,only one was open the other shut.Shut on purpose i don't know.Will basket only go and you will have to fend for yourself.Another thing the bloke in front of me had two bottles of wine and some crisps and his shoppingbag in a trolley.But i never said owt.He might have needed the support the trolley gives.
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
Reading postman's thread made me realise it's a while since I posted a letter or visited my post office and until emails took off I used to go to the village Post Office nearly every day to post letters, get parcels of drawings weighed, buy stamps, get tax discs and the like.

Same with the bank and my local branch!

The only custom that the post office gets from me is around twenty letters per year to send of Audax brevet cards from permanent rides for validation. This year has been bad - I've only done one Audax so far.

I reckon things like Ebay and Amazon are helping to keep the post office going.

There's several services that I would love to use the post office for but can not - taxing my car, using it for banking with HSBC, getting passport forms, and one or two other services that I was surprised to find that the local offices could not offer - can't remember what they were.

There's no point employing postmen if there's nothing for them to deliver and/or no customers for them to serve.

The postal service has not been singled out for workforce attrition - I witnessed the tail end of the decimation of the staffing of Yorkshire Water and quite large culls of the teaching workforce in the late eighties and early nineties. The reductions were justifiable. Efficiencies and changed working were responsible.

Clive Jenkins forecast the current turbulent (un)employment scene in his 1979 book, "The Collapse of Work"

I scoffed at the notion that folk would have several/many career changes during their working lives and take it in their stride when I read it in the mid eighties. I'm no longer surprised by the employment market.

There's a great presentation that gives food for thought here:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbI-363A2Q[/media]


It's a bit scary in places.
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
Vernon- not much in that clip provoked thought or scared me.

I understand that there is such a thing as changes and progress however, I don't feel that mechanisation and introductions of new technology are justifications to cut posts where people are still needed.

Modernisation is an interesting one but these things should make life easier but does it really?

Does it allow people to properly engage with each other - slightly ironic in that I type this on an online forum but is that engaging in it's truest sense? Or are human interactions masked by an online filter? Don't doubt me, I am part of the computer generation but it should not be at a cost to the quality of life. It should enhance/partner, should we become slaves to the progress determined by changes or progress? The automated button pressing call centre is an example of how technology is unhelpful, indifferent and downright frustrating.

Does it take us less time to do a task - does it mean that our working or personal lives are less hurried and stressful? Not necessarily, people hold onto phones/devices that enable them to check work/check emails etc when do people stop? When do people draw the lines at working?When do people switch off an relax?

I disagree Vernon that justifications for loss of jobs in teaching and water companies.

I can't speak for the water companies but the how has teaching improved? It's become even more target driven, paperwork heavy and the teachers feel that less time is given to teaching. Sometimes the quality and aim of an objective gets missed - not everything in life can be measured in a quantative way.
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
Vernon- not much in that clip provoked thought or scared me.

How about the economic impact of the population growth in India and China - it's already responsible for the hike in scrap metal prices and making the theft of copper cabling from the rails ways a lucrative crime. There will be conflict over access to natural resources and the like.

I understand that there is such a thing as changes and progress however, I don't feel that mechanisation and introductions of new technology are justifications to cut posts where people are still needed.

Anecdotal evidence from an ex-steel worker in Sheffield suggests that mechanisation and new technologies do justify the need to cut posts - apparently, despite the huge job losses in the Sheffield - steel production is higher than it's ever been. He might be wrong. I have no means of verifying his story. If it is true how do you justify paying a large part of the workforce to be idle.

Modernisation is an interesting one but these things should make life easier but does it really?

It depends on how one defines 'making life easier'

Does it allow people to properly engage with each other - slightly ironic in that I type this on an online forum but is that engaging in it's truest sense? Or are human interactions masked by an online filter? Don't doubt me, I am part of the computer generation but it should not be at a cost to the quality of life. It should enhance/partner, should we become slaves to the progress determined by changes or progress? The automated button pressing call centre is an example of how technology is unhelpful, indifferent and downright frustrating.

It's even worse for the hapless employees whose work rates and down times are monitored electronically. Lots of things that I used to do face to face are now depersonalised - online purchasing, online banking, registering complaints etc. In many respects I see these as liberating - I don't have to queue to buy things, I can purchase at any time it suits me. I can raise loans and pay bills without the tedium of having to go to the psot office/bank/utility company offices (when did anyone last pay a bill at a gas showroom or the leccy board?)

Does it take us less time to do a task - does it mean that our working or personal lives are less hurried and stressful? Not necessarily, people hold onto phones/devices that enable them to check work/check emails etc when do people stop? When do people draw the lines at working?When do people switch off an relax?

Yes it does take less time to do tasks. When I compare my leisure time with that of my parents' generation, I am not enslaved by the time consuming tasks with restricted choices that dominated their out of work time. Phones and computers to check work related communications? Not on your nelly! I am a teacher and work on site until my tasks are completed. I do not check emails or do any work related tasks until peak examination assessment time and even then it's restricted to marking.


I disagree Vernon that justifications for loss of jobs in teaching and water companies.

I can't speak for the water companies but the how has teaching improved? It's become even more target driven, paperwork heavy and the teachers feel that less time is given to teaching. Sometimes the quality and aim of an objective gets missed - not everything in life can be measured in a quantative way.


I had a summer job with Yorkshire Water to cut grass. There was a drought. The grass didn't grow and there was nothing for me to do. Because my contract was to cut grass, the management were not allowed by the union to ask me to do anything else until the bizarre compromise of me being asked to create a lawn from scratch and tend it to give my replacement some grass to cut in early autumn. Such practices were rife and the full time workers rarely did more than three hours work per shift - the rest of the time was taken up with preparation time - preparing to walk to the work site. Preparing/washing before walking back to the canteen. preparing washing before going back to the work site. Preparing/washing before lunch. etc. Even as an alleged member of the lazy student population, I found the situation wasteful and at time frustrating - I actually wanted to work and was sometimes castigated by the full time workers for working too hard!


I never suggested that teaching has improved through job losses. There was a lot of surplus teachers caused by a drop in pupil numbers. When combined with delegated budgets, schools simply could not afford to employ surplus staff as they did not have alternative pots of money to dip into to pay them. Local Education authorities buried their heads in the sand and hoped that the problem would go away but finally bit the bullet and funded enhanced retirement packages and as a last resort redundancies. I totally agree that quantitative assessment isn't the be all and end all. I wanted to strangle a deputy head teacher who delivered a "Know your pupils through data" presentation. I'd rather know my pupils through conversation. A retired pal of mine accurately summed up the feelings of futility with all of the data gathering that we are charged with: "You don't fatten pigs by weighing them".

Were are living in difficult times. Those of us in permanent employment are fortunate. I am not so confident that my offspring will enjoy as settled and secure a life as I have had. The Shift Happen presentation is not as 'in your face' as I'd like it to be.
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
The economic impact and growth rates of China and India has been on the cards for a while - the issues areound natural resources and how they are shared out are an important issue to think about but my political feelings are that they have to be planned out and worked out globally (at present it can appear that Western-centric political alliances -please insert your acronym here- seem to have allowed certain 'super power countries like UK and US to go through their growth, their industrialisation and current policy can be sometimes and this is imo be leaning towards the propping up of the current economic status quo)

Cutting the post is not just the simplistic matter of keeping jobs because there are people to work in them - my issue is if you remove people from an area of work - how do you then reskill them? It just appears that the workforce global in the UK is shifting and with globalization the driving down of conditions and pay get farmed off abroad. Plenty of people employed in the mining towns that lost their jobs back in the 80's and 70's still are unemployed - I can't say for the steel industry up in Sheffield but my issue is turning people into pawns on a chess board and completely disregarding needs in that sense.

The example you give about teaching - it's short sightedness and points back to what I hinted about - economic planning; (I'm in cafe so I won't go into big details about this) what was the case in terms of pupil numbers at that time was then used to influence future staffing, however times have changed (successive changes of government don't allow for long term planning - it's all fashionability and political ideology of those in power) and it just seems that class sizes are increasing and in a few primaries near where I live they have a serious shortage of spaces..yet there is talk of cuts to teaching roles.

Yes I am not one to disagree that technology can improve our lives, increase our output and productivity but it should not be something that is used to hold people to hostage and further the insecurity of their working lives.

I could form a further political argument but to be frank, this is quite heavy for cafe already, my brain is tired (not at my usual stellar sparkling, quick minded self!) AND I can't be arsed!

I don't really see that we are disagree about the key issues at hand - it's just the way changes are justified, what is behind them (ie money) and the power, control and autonomy people have over their own lives or whether people are moved about and booted off as mere crap you find under your boot.
 

bobg

Über Member
Coincidentally me too postie, half the class left with 5 O levels ( the max the school would provide) , did a year or so at teachers training college and were spewed out as qualified teachers, and many of the rest ( like me ) found a sinicure as a " tea taster" in London.
 

Adasta

Well-Known Member
Location
London
6th June 1966.Postman left school.My Dad gave me a week off then told me i HAD to get a job.Well we did in those days,none of this i'll go on the benefit malarky,let someone else fund my lifestyle.

[...]

Soon the Privatisation Bill will be passed and it will all go tits up.

'Back in my day, we had to listen to sanctimonious grouches from the previous generation talk about how their way of thinking was better and eee by gum weren't they productive and hard-working. Then their generation destroyed everything and there were no jobs left.

But that's in the past now. Now let's just all take our escapism pills while the robots do the housework.'
 
Top Bottom