Licensing of e-bike riders

[ebikeerwidnes]

The federal rules are 3 classes adopted by virtually all states or very closely. These are classed as bicycles

Class 1 and 2 are either pedal or throttle assist, limited to 20mph and 750W motor

Class 3 is pedal assist only, upto 28mph 750W motor. Requires speedo, helmets and restricted on some cycle paths.

Anything above those falls into motorcycle laws.

I've always thought 20mph and 750W motor being a near perfect set of limits for 99.9% of users without getting into legislative registration malarkey

Given that I am used to a UK legal bike - so max 250W

The idea of a 750W bike being defined as "just a bike" seems very weird to me
I get a decent level of assist from my current ebike - going up a steep hill still requires a lot of effort
but just complies with the "just a bike "concept


I guess it is just what you are used to

my previous ebike was a UK pre-2016 version - so had a throttle but was limited to 200W - it was actually 180W
and that seemed perfectly OK to me at the time

 

[classic33]

Given that I am used to a UK legal bike - so max 250W

The idea of a 750W bike being defined as "just a bike" seems very weird to me
I get a decent level of assist from my current ebike - going up a steep hill still requires a lot of effort
but just complies with the "just a bike "concept


I guess it is just what you are used to

my previous ebike was a UK pre-2016 version - so had a throttle but was limited to 200W - it was actually 180W
and that seemed perfectly OK to me at the time

Some folk want to give the impression that they're cycling, even if they're not pedalling. A majority of the same can't be bothered with pedalling and don't want to bother with following the legal route.

Question is why just because it looks like a bicycle, but isn't powered by a petrol engine should we, as road users and just as important these days, footpath/pavement users should we have to put up with illegal electric vehicles on the roads and footpaths. We'd not accept it if it was a car or motorbike.

 

[AlBaker]

Patience. Darwin will sort the problem out if you wait long enough.

Ah, yes. Fred Darwin, the geezer who invented the cheese sandwich with raw onion on it. He'll figure it all out.

 

[BoldonLad]

There is much media coverage (or outrage) in the UK about, so-called, e-bikes.

IMHO, it is necessary to define exactly what is being talked/written about.

I can see no sensible reason to change the rules on the existing electrically assisted bicycles (which conform to UK/EU regulations. For the remaining Electrically powered scooters, and motorcycles, all that is necessary is to enforce the existing law.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

It is important to be clear about which country's regulation you are on about when you talk about ebikes
because they differ vastly and even in a single country some people are talking about one type and other another
but they all just say "ebike"

CC is mostly UK based as far as I can see so the default is probably UK reg - but I think it is still necessary to say this
apart from anything else, some people are using "devices" that are not necessarily totally compliant - such as personal e-scoters and ebikes that have been converted and may or may not be totally compliant

 

[presta]

America is a big country, so 40,000 may seem a lot but spread across each state, it's probably about the same as the UK. There are enough e-bike crashes, and riders riding dangerously in public places, to warrant action.

40,000 deaths among a population of 348m is 115 deaths per million, and in the UK, 1500 deaths/67m is 22 dpm.

40,000 deaths in 3280 billion vehicle miles is 12 deaths/bvm, in the UK 1500/336.2 bvm is 4.46 deaths/bvm.

The USA is 5 times worse by population, and 2.7 times worse by miles driven.

 

[Alex321]

If in the UK, that bit of information would be incorrect.

In what respect?

The legislation is here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1168/made
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/made

Which part of that legislation makes what you bolded incorrect?

 

[classic33]

In what respect?

The legislation is here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1168/made
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/made

Which part of that legislation makes what you bolded incorrect?

The pre 2015 reorganisation of the regulations had a lower top speed, and a lower motor output.
Requirement under the 2015 regulations allow for a walk assist throttle, not full assist whilst using the bike.

 

[Anthony-C]

My understanding FWIW is that there's the requirement for pedalling to enable assist and the exemption termed "walk assist", and nothing about how the assist is to be activated. That leaves "full _assist_" at all speeds legal and "fully acting" independently of pedals not legal, unless there's more to it.

 

[classic33]

My understanding FWIW is that there's the requirement for pedalling to enable assist and the exemption termed "walk assist", and nothing about how the assist is to be activated. That leaves "full _assist_" at all speeds legal and "fully acting" independently of pedals not legal, unless there's more to it.

More to it than that.

In the UK it's an Electric Assist Pedal Cycle. Primary source of propulsion must be the pedals.

 

[Alex321]

More to it than that.

In the UK it's an Electric Assist Pedal Cycle. Primary source of propulsion must be the pedals.

And just where in those regulations does it say that?

The regulations say that it must be capable of being propelled by the pedals. And that the motor must not operate above 15.5mph.

I can't see anywhere it says the pedals must be the main source of propulsion, nor anywhere it says the bike cannot have a throttle.

Since posting above, I have found the legislation which says that power must cut out when the rider is not pedalling
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2013/168
Article 2, para 2(h)

But still nothing saying the pedals must be the primary source of propulsion, or that a throttle cannot be used at any speed (up to 15.5mph).

 

[classic33]

And just where in those regulations does it say that?

The regulations say that it must be capable of being propelled by the pedals. And that the motor must not operate above 15.5mph.

I can't see anywhere it says the pedals must be the main source of propulsion, nor anywhere it says the bike cannot have a throttle.

Since posting above, I have found the legislation which says that power must cut out when the rider is not pedalling
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2013/168
Article 2, para 2(h)

But still nothing saying the pedals must be the primary source of propulsion, or that a throttle cannot be used at any speed (up to 15.5mph).

The clue is in how the UK regulations are worded. Electric Assisted Pedal Cycles(EAPC's).
It's why some companies will put their bikes, before delivery to you, through the MVSA to allow what you're trying to describe.

Check what a pedal cycle is, under UK regulations. Remove the pedals and it's no longer a pedal cycle.

 

[classic33]

https://www.bikeyardonline.co.uk/bl...vAH5NC7tx2iOAtrblStPGu42Ul7IL3OpsLZrfaoe5oLxI

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

based on the bikeyardonline post - and stuff on the Pedalec website I can certainly find government documents saying that "walk assist" throttle are the only ones allowed and only up to walking speed

but I am struggling to find there this is mentioned in actual legislation
lots of places where people say it is what the legislation says - nothing pointing to the actual legal document stating the regulation and requirement

what am I missing?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

On top of which

Bike speedomoters - and car ones - are not always 100% accurate

I have heard that there is some leeway if you are stopped and the cut off speed turns out to be slightly over

I have also heard that some companies set their bikes adding the extra and for mine, if they have, then it is not something that is adjustable on Bosch systems

anyone know what the leeway is??