LIME E-bikes being dumped in canal & rivers

[presta]

but the words used in the article are irresponsible and it lumps the big 1000W (plus) electric powered motorbikes into the same category as proper legal Pedalecs - or EPACS ro whatever we should call them

The problem is the term 'e-bike', because it covers legal electric motorcycles, illegal electric motorcycles, and EAPCs. "If it's got two wheels and an electric motor it's an e-bike", or "if it's got pedals it's a pushbike", I spend hours arguing with them on Twitter because it's an ambiguous term that lumbers cyclists with all the blame for illegal motorbike use. Most people don't know or care what an EAPC is.

 

[classic33]

It comes from the EAPC legislation if you follow it up through all the specifications it references.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1168/made
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/regulation/2/made
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:42006X1124(03)#:~:text=Regulation No 85 of the Economic
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2013/168/oj/eng

View attachment 781998

Covers e-bikes not covered by the current UK EPAC Regulations.
"1.3
The electric drive trains are composed of controllers and motors which are used for propulsion of vehicles as the sole mode of propulsion, at least for part of the time."

The same piece also covers the electric ride on/in cars that you'll see the younger kids in/on.
Which when stripped back to its parts, reveals a motor of a similar diameter to those in Tamiya R/C cars. Even the mounting holes match. It's longer than the 540 motor though.

 

[presta]

Covers e-bikes not covered by the current UK EPAC Regulations.

The EAPC regulations I cited above say:

"Regulation (EU) No 168/2013 defines “maximum continuous rated power” as the maximum thirty minutes power at the output shaft of an electric engine as set out in United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) regulation No 85."

which is what I cited.

If UNECE 85 is irrelevant, ask those who drafted the legislation why they specified it.

 

[classic33]

The EAPC regulations I cited above say:

"Regulation (EU) No 168/2013 defines “maximum continuous rated power” as the maximum thirty minutes power at the output shaft of an electric engine as set out in United Nations Economics Commission for Europe (UNECE) regulation No 85."

which is what I cited.

If UNECE 85 is irrelevant, ask those who drafted the legislation why they specified it.

Standardised rules across the EU. Most of Europe has a separate class that can go faster, the UK regonise them as light mopeds. Which require the driver/rider be licensed, the vehicle be insured and hold a valid MOT. And in the case of a pedal cycle that falls outside the UK EPAC Regulations, a helmet of motorcycle standards be worn.

Ireland has similar rules to the UK, and they came down on the second class(light mopeds) overnight.

 

[Alex321]

It's is fairly evident from the charges, even to an eejit like me: Patrick Douglas, 21, of Fishbourne Lane, admitted driving dangerously, without a licence, insurance or headgear, and failing to stop after an accident.

If it was an e-bike, headgear would be neither here nor there.

Nor would the licence or insurance, since neither are required for legal e-bikes.

 

[DaveReading]

The problem is the term 'e-bike', because it covers legal electric motorcycles, illegal electric motorcycles, and EAPCs. "If it's got two wheels and an electric motor it's an e-bike", or "if it's got pedals it's a pushbike", I spend hours arguing with them on Twitter because it's an ambiguous term that lumbers cyclists with all the blame for illegal motorbike use. Most people don't know or care what an EAPC is.

I don't see the confusion being resolved any time soon.

As I posted recently on another (non-cycling) forum:

"In everyday usage, an eBike (or e-Bike) is the same as an eAnythingElse - it's something that is electrically powered or propelled, as distinct from a manually-powered version of the same thing.

Some eBikes are legal, others aren't - the law (with which many aren't familiar) determines which are which."

 

[Drago]

Non compliant ebikes are mopeds or motorcycles, not actually ebikes at all.

 

[DaveReading]

Non compliant ebikes are mopeds or motorcycles, not actually ebikes at all.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

Something that is "not actually" an ebike may nevertheless be perceived as one by someone not familiar with the legislation.

Hence my reference to confusion.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Non compliant ebikes are mopeds or motorcycles, not actually ebikes at all.

Legally yes
although the legal concept of the word is not defined - EPAC and Pedalec are better description

but neither is a good sound or feel of being a word - and the media does like soemthing that sounds good

and the less perfect parts of the media do like to be able to have headlines that use words that people like
and preferably lump loads of people/things into one big group for people to hate

so if you can say that x people have been injured by ebikes in yyyton over the last year
and when they looked they saw 50 people ride ebikes down the high street over a one hour period on Saturday

then those number look far better if you include legal ebikes when you look at the high street
and that makes people buy/view/stream their media

what we need to a better way to describe legal ebike/EPACs/Pedalecs in a way that the medai will use

 

[Alex321]

Non compliant ebikes are mopeds or motorcycles, not actually ebikes at all.

According to YOUR definition of "ebikes".

There is no generally accepted definition that allows you to say they aren't.

They certainly aren't EAPCs, but EAPCs are a subset of what most people would consider "Ebikes".

I think most people would say that if it can be propelled by pedaling at all, and it has an electric motor, then it is an ebike, whether it is legal to use on the road or not.

 

[classic33]

Legally yes
although the legal concept of the word is not defined - EPAC and Pedalec are better description

but neither is a good sound or feel of being a word - and the media does like soemthing that sounds good

and the less perfect parts of the media do like to be able to have headlines that use words that people like
and preferably lump loads of people/things into one big group for people to hate

so if you can say that x people have been injured by ebikes in yyyton over the last year
and when they looked they saw 50 people ride ebikes down the high street over a one hour period on Saturday

then those number look far better if you include legal ebikes when you look at the high street
and that makes people buy/view/stream their media

what we need to a better way to describe legal ebike/EPACs/Pedalecs in a way that the medai will use

Legal ebike and EPAC are the same, Pedalecs aren't recognized under the UK's regulations. They are classed as mopeds.

An easy way to determine the difference, does the rider have to pedal to provide forward motion going uphill?

 

[Dadam]

You can create legal definitions of words all you want but that isn't how language works in everyday use. Like it or not "ebike" is now in general use for anything with an electric motor and two wheels. There's no putting that genie back into the bottle. With that in mind though, news media have a responsibility not to cause confusion and to distinguish between the types.

Legal ebike and EPAC are the same, Pedalecs aren't recognized under the UK's regulations. They are classed as mopeds.

An easy way to determine the difference, does the rider have to pedal to provide forward motion going uphill?

It's correct to say that "pedelec" has no legal meaning in the UK. However it is also another general term for a pedal assist bike; just a portmanteau word of pedal and electric.

All EAPCs are pedelecs, but not all pedelecs are EAPCs. What you're referring to is "speed pedelecs", a specific legal classification some other countries have created for the more powerful type that aren't EAPC but in their legal view don't need to be a full moped classification.

 

[fossyant]

I think we should all campaign for them to all be called LayzEE Bikes !

 

[mjr]

I think most people would say that if it can be propelled by pedaling at all, and it has an electric motor, then it is an ebike, whether it is legal to use on the road or not.

It seems a bit poor to have such a pop at another chat participant when it's only "I think" backing up your view of the population. I think most people would regard some pedalable things as electric mopeds and not include them as "ebikes", but I'm not willing to be quite as scathing about your view based only on my thoughts and I'd welcome any survey results about public perceptions of ebike naming and types.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

I think we should all campaign for them to all be called LayzEE Bikes !

Do they become unlazee bikes when the rider does an interval around and above threshold heartrate?