London riots

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
Also it could be seen as domestic terrorism.

Err, no. This is exactly not what it is. Terrorism is violence with political ends. This certainly isn't that. Invoking the idea of terrorism really doesn't help either, because it merely gets people more wound up and demanding more extreme solutions.
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
This isn't about the underclass.

Indeed. I debated putting a disclaimer on my link to the Telegraph article saying 'ignore the underclass language and think about the socio-economic analysis'. 'Underclass' is just another reformulation of the quasi-racial Victorian idea of the 'criminal class' or the 'residuum' that the educated middle classes regarded with puzzlement and alarm from the comfortable distance of their drawing rooms.
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
Which is ironic, because if it was deemed to be political protest*, then Im sure there would be a lot more sympathy.

* A bit of a stretch in this case, I know.

A bit... there's also a difference between political protest with violence, and terrorism - which sets out to cause indiscriminate death and destruction in order to frighten people into changing their behaviour, laws etc. That of course, should remind us that the original terrorists were states and that states remain the biggest users of terror on their own populations (and others). But this is way off topic...
 

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
what it definitely isn't is the end of the world. We've had riots for centuries. Some of them had great political import and some were just sprees. This is at the spree end of the spectrum, and it doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot except that youth is wasted on (some of) the young. This kind of thing happens in the US a lot, and has done for decades - it's part of growing up in a society that lacks common purpose and meaning, and in which material things are seen as the be-all and end-all.

As for parents - I think we can be too tough on them. Once kids are in secondary school they are much more interested in and influenced by their peers.
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
I think in part the problem lies with the manner in which some parents have abdicated their parenting responsibilities to the state (or those they see as representatives of the state).

Part, perhaps. But the thing is that parents have been encouraged to leave it more to society since WW2, and there's actually nothing wrong with that in itself, but only if there is a strong identification between society and the state accompanied by the kinds of systems of accountability and social redistribution that make people feel included and in control.

But the UK has become more and more half-hearted about social democracy, almost as soon as it was introduced, and then the state has gradually withdrawn from its social obligations, leaving nothing in its place. Coupled with the hyper-individualism and demand for immediate gratification that has been encouraged by consumerism, this generates a low-attention span, aggressive, disengaged, amoral and sociopathic populace. In countries which retained the courage of their social democratic convictions or were more committed to them in the first place, particularly the Scandanavian ones, this social void has not been created to anything like the same extent. Sure, you get the occasional violent nutters (as we do in the UK too) but rioting... not so much.

This factors aren't confined to the people rioting, but in the richer classes, amongst people like bankers and brokers, sociopathy and amorality are almost regarded as virtues, even as they mess up the entire world, not just a few streets*.

*Disclaimer for the hard of understanding: nothing in this statement should be taken as endorsing or condoning the violent actions of the individuals involved in the rioting.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Judging by the TV, a lot of London will be immune to rioting tonight. There's not enough space between all the TV crews to have a riot!
rolleyes.gif
 
This factors aren't confined to the people rioting, but in the richer classes, amongst people like bankers and brokers, sociopathy and amorality are almost regarded as virtues, even as they mess up the entire world, not just a few streets*.

*Disclaimer for the hard of understanding: nothing in this statement should be taken as endorsing or condoning the violent actions of the individuals involved in the rioting.



No need for the disclaimer - if the rioters were hanging bankers from lamp posts, there would be widespread public support.
 

asterix

Comrade Member
Location
Limoges or York
*Disclaimer for the hard of understanding: nothing in this statement should be taken as endorsing or condoning the violent actions of the individuals involved in the rioting.

Damn! I was just about to give you a kicking as a bien pensant, leftie, apologist..

Coupled with the hyper-individualism and demand for immediate gratification that has been encouraged by consumerism, this generates a low-attention span, aggressive, disengaged, amoral and sociopathic populace.

Agreed, not to mention celeb culture whereby you either become famous or are a nobody.
 

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
No need for the disclaimer - if the rioters were hanging bankers from lamp posts, there would be widespread public support.

being a total socialmedia spaz, can someone tell me how a person would go about calling on members of these media within a community to join forces and assist the police in dettering the kids...enmass.

I'm serious, I know very little about it.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
As for parents - I think we can be too tough on them. Once kids are in secondary school they are much more interested in and influenced by their peers.

Oh, I think we should. When a child gets to teenage years the die is cast. The parent have to set what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behaviour in their very young children and to have respect for others from the outset, when they don't the child has nothing to rely on and that is when the problems start.
 

rowan 46

Über Member
Location
birmingham
I think there is a criminal element suckering a lot of kids in, there's often copycat riots after a real one, this time what seems to be happening is that gangs are orchestrating youngsters for their own ends. they light the blue touchpaper then take advantage of the situation. the kids are along for the excitement. the looting starts and the mob reaches critical mass. I think if it was genuine social discontent the age range would be wider and somebody would be coming forward with grievances, that hasn't happened and I don't think it will for a while. when government policy really kicks in that's when the real anger will hit the streets at the moment it's just kids playing from what I've heard from kids in birmingham it's been fun to be part of this. It's really quite disturbing how lightly some of these kids are taking it
 

Cheddar George

oober member
I think there is a criminal element suckering a lot of kids in, there's often copycat riots after a real one, this time what seems to be happening is that gangs are orchestrating youngsters for their own ends. they light the blue touchpaper then take advantage of the situation. the kids are along for the excitement. the looting starts and the mob reaches critical mass. I think if it was genuine social discontent the age range would be wider and somebody would be coming forward with grievances, that hasn't happened and I don't think it will for a while. when government policy really kicks in that's when the real anger will hit the streets at the moment it's just kids playing from what I've heard from kids in birmingham it's been fun to be part of this. It's really quite disturbing how lightly some of these kids are taking it

I was thinking this myself, some of the kids seemed to be treating it like some kind of "flash mob" event. I suppose the social media has made the copycat stuff a lot more likely than in years gone by.
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
How about this for a plan...

we clear the streets of police in areas of rioting and let them get on with it. All CCTV is aimed at the rioters, plus police and media helichoppers armed with cameras keeping a close eye on the action, and few more camera crews on roof tops watching everything as we let the yobs do their worst. Alongside the blanket camera coverage, we also have a few commentators on the rooftops with a PA loud enough for the yobs to hear the running commentary of their actions... but I'm talking over hyped wrestling type commentary... So not only are they allowed to get on with it, they're being actively encouraged with the commentary.

A few days later the footage is used to trace those involved, at which point they're sent to god knows how many years of hard labour in Siberia or somewhere and are never seen again.

After a few years of combating rioting by letting them get on with it, letting them brag for a couple of days, then they just disappear... the message will start to sink in.

The problem with the penal system is it's not a deterrent... Prison aint too bad, they get fed, a bed, visitors once a week, cigarettes and drugs are brought in and chances are most offenders wont even see a prison due to overcrowding. If offenders just disappeared and their friends and family know nothing other than "they disappeared into the penal system" then that's a deterrant.
 

Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
How about this for a plan...

we clear the streets of police in areas of rioting and let them get on with it. All CCTV is aimed at the rioters, plus police and media helichoppers armed with cameras keeping a close eye on the action, and few more camera crews on roof tops watching everything as we let the yobs do their worst. Alongside the blanket camera coverage, we also have a few commentators on the rooftops with a PA loud enough for the yobs to hear the running commentary of their actions... but I'm talking over hyped wrestling type commentary... So not only are they allowed to get on with it, they're being actively encouraged with the commentary.

A few days later the footage is used to trace those involved, at which point they're sent to god knows how many years of hard labour in Siberia or somewhere and are never seen again.

After a few years of combating rioting by letting them get on with it, letting them brag for a couple of days, then they just disappear... the message will start to sink in.

The problem with the penal system is it's not a deterrent... Prison aint too bad, they get fed, a bed, visitors once a week, cigarettes and drugs are brought in and chances are most offenders wont even see a prison due to overcrowding. If offenders just disappeared and their friends and family know nothing other than "they disappeared into the penal system" then that's a deterrant.
Now I like that idea a lot.
 
Top Bottom