London shall change the face of cycling in the UK

[marinyork]

It is surprising how such simple features can have a profound effect, I recently got a basket for my bike, and to say it is a huge weight off my shoulders is a fact and an under-exaggeration.

I no longer use the car for shopping. Now imagine what a releif it would be to go shopping on the soon(ish) to be de-congested Oxford Street, without having to worry about sore arms.

I got a rack recently, I know what you mean. As for Oxford St, I got to experience cycling along there for the first time a while back, it's hilarious doing 8 or 9mph along there . I thought Oxford St was getting pedestrianised though? Anyway I'll let someone else give their say and come back later.

 

[chap]

I will look at all the links, but more over time, they are actually a good list, just I'll have thoroughly read it all before the scheme starts and pester power begins . I think the excusemongers I know would give it a go at those prices, quite happily, which is the idea of the scheme! Anything that gets them on the bikes and then makes them buy a bike is good!

As for London, chap, yeah maybe it's right, but cycle politics in London and elsewhere are similar and different. If it made things even slightly easier elsewhere it would be good, a lot of cycle stuff here works on bizarre small pots of money and schemes being strung together, anything outside the box and you have to beg and beg and beg, even if it is 1 sheffield stand.

Very true, and I can imagine that certain apathetic council staff may point to the exorbitant costs involved. Fortunately, that's where the smaller districts of London can refute their arguments by stressing it is largely abut infrastructure as opposed to schemes. As for the schemes, that where Blackpool and Cardiff come in

• Cardiff
• Blackpool

 

[GrumpyGregry]

How long do we reckon it will take for 2/3rds of the bikes to go awol. Took Paris 18 months to 'loose' half the fleet according to the operators, and I reckon UK-based scrotes are far more efficient...

I, for one, being a provincial who has to go to London for work and social life will use the scheme more or less regardless of the cost vs tube/bus provided there are bike parks near my mainline station (Victoria) and my various destinations. I've used velibs in Paris, bit scarey to be honest, and the similar scheme in Barcelona, which was a joy.

 

[thomas]

6000 bicycles! Although it sounds great, isn't there the problem that it wills squeeze badly needed normal private cycle parking?

Anyway I find the scheme interesting as I know one of two people who constantly make excuses for not buying a bicycle or trying one who live in London and the scheme might be the sort of thing to get them to give it a go.

I'd use them if I visited London, and less concerned about the cost than Thomas.

P.S. How does the payment system work, do you have to put your credit card in the side of the bike or slot in 20p coins or what?

It depends, but I'm used to walking and if I got a train up to Waterloo most the places I would visit aren't more than 15 to 20 min away by foot (I'd probably spend just as long trying to use the machine to buy it, locking it up and getting there as it'd take to walk).

I'd probably also be with a friend and to be honest, I'm not sure I'd be able to cope with how I imagine my friends would cycle (gutter hugging, doing about walking pace, lack of awareness, etc).

I would like to try the scheme though, so would certainly use it once.

 

[dellzeqq]

It may work in Zone 1. If you want to get from Leicester Square to Victoria, a bike, however heavy, has to be the way to go - you can spend five minutes getting down to a tube platform. I fear for the new generation of Velibers when cab drivers work out just who is going to lose the most from this.......

Ken had hopes that it might work across 32 boroughs, but certain boroughs blocked it, and when all is said and done, London is a suburban city with most people living in two storey houses - there wouldn't be the density of travel to make all the bike stands that you'd have to put in worthwhile.

For both zone 1 and the 'burbs the real key to success is the congeniality of the roads, and that, sadly, depends on constraining the car. It's commuters from zones 4 and out that are clogging up our streets, and I can't see the present mayor doing anything about it.

I can't really see the relevance to midsized towns (Derby up to Nottingham). I'd have thought that more cycle parking and more congenial streets would be the way to go - only a complete muppet drives to the centre of Oxford or Cheltenham.

 

[gaz]

i'm not sure i could see anyone cycling one of these to CP. maybe from CP to london a niiiice downhill slope.

 

[chap]

It may work in Zone 1. If you want to get from Leicester Square to Victoria, a bike, however heavy, has to be the way to go - you can spend five minutes getting down to a tube platform. I fear for the new generation of Velibers when cab drivers work out just who is going to lose the most from this.......

Ken had hopes that it might work across 32 boroughs, but certain boroughs blocked it, and when all is said and done, London is a suburban city with most people living in two storey houses - there wouldn't be the density of travel to make all the bike stands that you'd have to put in worthwhile.

For both zone 1 and the 'burbs the real key to success is the congeniality of the roads, and that, sadly, depends on constraining the car. It's commuters from zones 4 and out that are clogging up our streets, and I can't see the present mayor doing anything about it.

I can't really see the relevance to midsized towns (Derby up to Nottingham). I'd have thought that more cycle parking and more congenial streets would be the way to go - only a complete muppet drives to the centre of Oxford or Cheltenham.

Yes, it is well known that the ambitions of this scheme have been snaffled by a few petty politikers although as with Oyster, this shall grow. There is even less of an issue with expansion since it is the same groups managing the implementation, as opposed to a new company to accomodate under the logistical, and IT implementation.

We have another year before they are updated, but from 2001 census the following can be gleamed:

Houshold Transportation
Households without car/van 1130649
Household with 1 car or van 1298481
Household with 2 or more cars/vans 586867

Travel
Travel to work by car: 1195140
Travel to work by public transport: 1398746

Surely from this one can at least indicate that there is a potential market for this. So it does not take certain things into account such as distance, nor even where these people travel to. Although, a lot of wasted and unpleasant time is spent shifting from one platform to another on the tube. In Zone 1, where the main stations of London are (Waterloo, St Pancras/Kings Cross; Victoria; Paddington; Euston; Charing Cross), this would provide a better means of skipping unecessary oft delayed services.

As more people take part on the scheme, which no politician who has invested time with it would let fail, I can imagine that other provisions shall be made. Even if these are not immediately forthcoming, that idea of 'Critical Mass' so often trumpeted by the likes of LCC and CTC ought to be achieved.

There will be the ususal reports of inexperienced cyclists, particularly tourists (or 'illegal immigrants' as many Daily Mail cabbies would claim). These are the same issues as the Vélib faced - and that Amsterdam does, however drivers adapt. And sooner or later, the Cabbie will find it is not in their interest to intimidate a potential inexperienced cyclists behind the ususal bulk of their belly and polished steel, when the cyclist is on a solid steel machine with good scratchability potential.

Not every town nor city requires a cycle scheme, London will be made a lot better with one as it will not only acknowledges the increasing popularity in the form of transport, but will ease congestion, and coax people who otherwise would have deemed it the preserve of arrogant Lycra-clad egotists to participate and enjoy the marvellous sights around the city.

The idea is for a 'grab and go' model, you pick it up on the street, peddle off to where you desire, then lock it up at the next hub. There really should be no cases of anybody taking this into an underground station, nor into any actual station.

On the subject of stations, St Pancras/Kings Cross, and Euston are wonderfully linked by a cycle path, this could easily extend to Waterloo through Charing Cross, and Paddington. Were this the case, then the commuters prefered model would be established. This could even prompt a 'Green Wave'!

• http://www.copenhagenize.com/2007/10/green-wave.html
• http://www.copenhagenize.com/2008/10/green-wave-spreads.html
• http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/H.asp

 

[dellzeqq]

We have a critical mass on some routes already - Greenwich to London Bridge and Colliers Wood to Westminster being the two that come to mind. All that TfL, Johnson and the cycling organisations have to do is to look at what works, look at what doesn't work, and make changes accordingly. Unfortunately the news coming out of CRIMS for the radial routes is that they're still in to roadworks mode...but I'm with Gaz on this. Cycling from Crystal Palace to London and back on one of these bikes might be do-able for the supremely fit - just - but most of these bikes will stay within Zone 1

I think the key to this is congeniality. To get, say from Kings Cross to Euston by the quickest route is an intimidating prospect for the neophyte cyclists. Leicester Square to Victoria should be easypeasy, but the circumnavigation of Trafalgar Square isn't great. Without some attempt to tame the car there'll be a limit to the scheme's success - although, as I say, we all wish it the very best

 

[Norm]

chap

You seem extremely knowledgeable and committed to this and you have a zeal which, whilst refreshing in a by-stander, comes across as being almost evangelical.

I hope that you don't mind me asking if you are connected with this project, as I've only seen the sort of passion you show when being sold something.

If you aren't then I apologise but your devotion put the question in my mind.

 

[marinyork]

re: Thomas and Dellzeqq, the sort of thing I'd use it for would be like in the past when I've had to get from Waterloo or Victoria to King's Cross/St Pancras. I like walking in London, it's one of the most friendly places for pedestrians in the country but both of those journeys are about 3 miles and when you have slight time constraints the bike hire would probably have off 80% of the walk and save you 15 minutes. Also going between the terminii and Notting Hill festival direction.

As for what Greg Collins said about nicking them, if it is credit card what I wondered about was how the credit card worked. Whether you had to insert the card into the docking machine and then you were allowed to undock a bike or whether you could just detach the bike and off you go. If it was the first I can see people being bikejacked and then joyriding the bikes off for 24 hours or something at someone else's expense. If it was the latter then the bikes will get nicked. I doubt whether it'd be a good idea putting the card reader in the bike as a criminal could haul it off to their lair and fiddle around with it at their pleasure.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

marinyork - Victoria (and v occasionally Waterloo) to Kings Cross/St Pancras is almost precisely my most frequent cross London work/social route. just what I was thinking they would be good for. small world.

Anything that relies on a credit/debit card for security assumes Johnny Scrote, or as he is known to readers of the DM Oleg Scroteski, can't clone a valid credit/debit card if he wants to. He can, for a few pence a time, well worth doing if you can export the bikes to a ready market alongside the Velibs and their cousins. I can already hear the plaintive cries of my Geordie cousins when they find an overdue bike charge on their statement and cry "Boot bonny lass av niver evin been to that Lundun, let alooan riden a bike thiar man pet"

 

[dellzeqq]

re: Thomas and Dellzeqq, the sort of thing I'd use it for would be like in the past when I've had to get from Waterloo or Victoria to King's Cross/St Pancras.

absolutely - and the joy of it is that the Tube is stuffed at peak periods, the access to the stations increasingly complex (have you been through St. Pancras recently) and the buses inevitably take a time. The Velib would be as quick as any other way - quicker even than a black cab.

I used to travel from an office just to the east of Victoria to a building site in Regents Park three times a week, and from the office to another office in Smithfield once a week. Taking care not to get out of breath, wearing trousers, jacket, suede shoes and carrying drawings I'd be quicker on the Brompton than a cab, and a lot quicker than the tube.

 

[chap]

chap

You seem extremely knowledgeable and committed to this and you have a zeal which, whilst refreshing in a by-stander, comes across as being almost evangelical.

I hope that you don't mind me asking if you are connected with this project, as I've only seen the sort of passion you show when being sold something.

If you aren't then I apologise but your devotion put the question in my mind.

Curses, you found me out, I am indeed Boris and I would have gotten away with it...

Thanks for the compliment, I am in no way connected with the project, I do not expect that I shall even make much use of the scheme. I'm just excited because, I'm sick of ill-prepared and half-done measures to accommodate cyclists.

After what I have seen in Paris, and I admit to being a fan of J H Crawfords 'Car Free Cities', I feel that this may be the thing which finally breaks through the malaise associated with cycle schemes and effective transportation. If I had my way, I would pedestrianise large swathes of the city, and introduce proper segregated cycling (of cycle-friendly) routes at key points.

London, is an amazing city which deserved far better than it is currently receiving with regards to town design, architecture, and transportation. I am just hoping that at last this will wake up those local authorities and such.

 

[chap]

We have a critical mass on some routes already - Greenwich to London Bridge and Colliers Wood to Westminster being the two that come to mind. All that TfL, Johnson and the cycling organisations have to do is to look at what works, look at what doesn't work, and make changes accordingly. Unfortunately the news coming out of CRIMS for the radial routes is that they're still in to roadworks mode...but I'm with Gaz on this. Cycling from Crystal Palace to London and back on one of these bikes might be do-able for the supremely fit - just - but most of these bikes will stay within Zone 1

I think the key to this is congeniality. To get, say from Kings Cross to Euston by the quickest route is an intimidating prospect for the neophyte cyclists. Leicester Square to Victoria should be easypeasy, but the circumnavigation of Trafalgar Square isn't great. Without some attempt to tame the car there'll be a limit to the scheme's success - although, as I say, we all wish it the very best

That is very true, perhaps Crystal Palace shall be akin to Montmatre in Paris (a Vélib+ station where you get a few extra minutes for parking there.) Personally, I have used the Brompton around those parts (not Crystal Palace but on the same sort of hills) and it was very doable, no doubt on a full-sized sit and beg, some may choose to walk up the hill.

Congeniality is key, however my hypothesis is that after critical mass of a politically supported scheme is reached, there is no way they'll let it fail, especially with all that might fail with the up and coming Olympics. One also has to remember that the up and coming Olympics shall put an intense strain on our infrastructure. This is a time, I anticipate that severe restrictions shall be placed on cars (if only for the few weeks the event is hosted.) If things are left to run as usual, they will be running around like headless chickens, until one says quick lets get more buses and more bikes. It would be a moment where they are faced with the uncomfortable truth concerning the unsustainability and unscalability of cars.

With this in mind, people will have to become used to cyclists, especially taxi drivers who in a day - should they have the wrong attitude - will likely have several complaints lodged against them from casual cyclists, concerning their uncivilised attitude and dangerous driving. When an affordable activity/practice becomes mainstream, standards normally rise. This is why we don't have many more of those grotty Italian joints, they have to live up to the, admittedly superficial, standards of Costa and Starbucks,

 

[dellzeqq]

Congeniality is key, however my hypothesis is that after critical mass of a politically supported scheme is reached, there is no way they'll let it fail, especially with all that might fail with the up and coming Olympics. One also has to remember that the up and coming Olympics shall put an intense strain on our infrastructure. This is a time, I anticipate that severe restrictions shall be placed on cars (if only for the few weeks the event is hosted.) If things are left to run as usual, they will be running around like headless chickens, until one says quick lets get more buses and more bikes. It would be a moment where they are faced with the uncomfortable truth concerning the unsustainability and unscalability of cars.
,

Chap - I'm not sure that TfL have got hold of the potential for using sustainable transport for the Olympics, or, indeed, the problems that it might present. Last I heard they were looking to wiggly green lines across parks. And there was no modelling of what 5,000 or 20,000 bikes might do to the streets around the Olympic park. All I can say is this - if you're planning on riding to Stratford, take sandwiches and a sleeping bag....