London tube - how much would I be charged if...

[NickM]

As so many things are these days. Just insert the name of the service provider of your choice into that sentence instead of "TfL".

Yup. Still, in this case it's an incentive to use the bike, isn't it?

 

[domd1979]

It was introduced because of its perceived advantages for TfL - not to make their customers' lives better.

Disagree. The advantages to TfL aren't perceived and smart cards have had advantages for customers.

 

[Norm]

Disagree. The advantages to TfL aren't perceived and smart cards have had advantages for customers.

Damned right!

Using an Oyster for daily commuting was fantastic, touch in and out without needing a ticket, automatic top-up by direct debit, with emails warning you the money is being taken, every journey (start and end station and time) available on-line to download for expense claims, it remains, for me, the perfect solution to pay for low-value items.

I only wish it could be used for other payments too, such as car park charges or for rail journeys not on the TfL fleet.

 

[NickM]

Disagree. The advantages to TfL aren't perceived and smart cards have had advantages for customers.

The card has no advantage whatever for me. I want to pay fares in cash, when I travel and not before. Paying for each individual journey by charging a plastic card is no easier than buying a ticket.

The main disadvantage associated with Oyster is that individual fares paid in other ways are now extortionately priced, in a deliberate policy of bullying the public into using the bloody card.

Many people put £40 or more on a card at the beginning of every week. That's one reason why they were introduced - so that (when interest rates were a lot higher than they are now) TfL would get the interest on many millions of pounds put on Oyster cards every Monday morning by mugs.

 

[Norm]

If I had the option to pay a week's interest on £40 to get the increased efficiency and reduction in queues that Oyster offers, I'd pay the interest every time.

In fact, I did.

If I'm considered a mug for losing out the 10p (maximum) in interest to save 10 minutes every day, then I will happily wear a t shirt advertising myself as such, as I walk past the people queuing to buy their tickets.

 

[NickM]

That's your choice. I don't get one.

 

[domd1979]

Paying for each individual journey by charging a plastic card is no easier than buying a ticket.

Its quicker, less queueing, no faffing about making sure to have plenty of change for fares. Using pay as you go Oyster the fare capping means that you don't have to work out in advance whether paying single fares or getting a day travelcard is cheapest.

The main disadvantage associated with Oyster is that individual fares paid in other ways are now extortionately priced, in a deliberate policy of bullying the public into using the bloody card.

Yes it is a deliberate policy but cash handling and all the necessary ticket issuing machines also costs more. For buses you can reduce boarding times significantly with cashless boarding.

Many people put £40 or more on a card at the beginning of every week. That's one reason why they were introduced - so that (when interest rates were a lot higher than they are now) TfL would get the interest on many millions of pounds put on Oyster cards every Monday morning by mugs.

The minimum top up (a fiver?) is a lot less than that though. As far as Travelcards go, they have always been an up-front payment so nothing has changed on that front.

 

[Lizban]

The card has no advantage whatever for me. I want to pay fares in cash, when I travel and not before. Paying for each individual journey by charging a plastic card is no easier than buying a ticket.

***********

Why can't you carry on doing this. Just pay the cash onto the oyster instead of getting a paper ticket?

 

[davidg]

apart from it is cheaper...and reduces the queue (of other people), if you want to pay every time

 

[NickM]

Quote: Originally Posted by NickM
Paying for each individual journey by charging a plastic card is no easier than buying a ticket.

Its quicker, less queueing, no faffing about making sure to have plenty of change for fares.

Er... how is queuing to top up a plastic card quicker than queuing to buy a ticket?

Quote: Originally Posted by NickM
The main disadvantage associated with Oyster is that individual fares paid in other ways are now extortionately priced, in a deliberate policy of bullying the public into using the bloody card.

Yes it is a deliberate policy but cash handling and all the necessary ticket issuing machines also costs more.

So, as I said some time ago, it is the advantages of the card system to TfL which account for its introduction.

If those advantages had been translated into fare reductions, or even the maintenance of fares at pre-introduction levels, then the card might have been worth putting up with. Instead, fares have increased at well above the rate of inflation in the period since Oyster was inflicted on TfL's customers.

And there is a whole bank of card-reading machines at the station I use most regularly. Don't tell me it was cheaper to install them than to leave their predecessors in situ.

 

[domd1979]

Er... how is queuing to top up a plastic card quicker than queuing to buy a ticket?

If you put enough credit on you don't have to top up every time you travel, you can top up on line, or use auto top-up.

So, as I said some time ago, it is the advantages of the card system to TfL which account for its introduction.

Of course there are advantages to TfL, but Oyster is also more convenient for the vast majority of passengers.

If those advantages had been translated into fare reductions, or even the maintenance of fares at pre-introduction levels, then the card might have been worth putting up with. Instead, fares have increased at well above the rate of inflation in the period since Oyster was inflicted on TfL's customers.

Fares would have risen regardless of Oyster. London gets off lightly where fares increases are concerned compared to the rest of the country.

And there is a whole bank of card-reading machines at the station I use most regularly. Don't tell me it was cheaper to install them than to leave their predecessors in situ.

Ticket issuing machines would have had to be replaced at some point anyway. Stations aren't the only consideration, cashless boarding greatly helps in bus operation as well.

 

[NickM]

If you put enough credit on you don't have to top up every time you travel, you can top up on line, or use auto top-up.

I pay when I travel. It helps to keep track of the cost. I don't mind queuing to put the necessary credit on the card, but I decline to give TfL money for travel on some future date.

Of course there are advantages to TfL, but Oyster is also more convenient for the vast majority of passengers.

That doesn't help me. The vast majority of passengers seem to be utterly supine, having no particular objection to being treated like cattle as well as ripped off.

Fares would have risen regardless of Oyster. London gets off lightly where fares increases are concerned compared to the rest of the country.

And, of course, fare increases are a great deal easier to hide if fares are paid via a card. Underground staff at North Greenwich, if asked for example what the daily cap for zones 1-3 is, direct me to the ticket office queue to find out. Why don't they know? And if TfL's own staff don't know what the fares are, how can their customers be expected to keep track? Oh, that's right - they are not supposed to. They are just supposed to keep coughing up regardless. Preferably via "auto top-up" so they don't realise the extent to which they are being stiffed.

One would be more inclined to tolerate TfL's many failings if they ran a good service. They don't. The Jubilee line at weekends has been a joke for years, as is the Northern line on weekdays. If you happen to have relied on the East London line for daily travel, well tough shoot - manage without it for three years. Worst of all as far as I am concerned, they built bloody North Greenwich station out at the end of the Greenwich peninsula where nobody lives instead of putting it somewhere sensible. Alternative overground services from Greenwich are appallingly overcrowded and unreliable.

Ticket issuing machines would have had to be replaced at some point anyway. Stations aren't the only consideration, cashless boarding greatly helps in bus operation as well.

I generally prefer to walk rather than use a bus. Particularly since the recent swingeing bus fare increase.