Making a will

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oldwheels

Legendary Member
Location
Isle of Mull
A quick call to the bank and/or Land registry will tell you what to do and how. Like you say everything transferred to you, just needs registration

According to the lawyers her estate needs to be formally wound up and they wanted all sorts of things like copies of joint bank accounts [ from seven and a half years ago] and the value of any jewellery, cars she owned, utility bills etc. No doubt with an eye to the cash they could perhaps squeeze out of me.
I do not necessarily believe them but even so it is more complicated than I can be bothered with myself.
I have looked at the Land Registry web site { used to be the Register of Sasines} and it does not appear to be easy for the layman.
In any case in the short term it makes no difference to me and eventually somebody with more confidence in such matters can get on with it as they will inherit the house. DIL is good at such things so no doubt she would get it sorted.
 

oldwheels

Legendary Member
Location
Isle of Mull
A quick call to the bank and/or Land registry will tell you what to do and how. Like you say everything transferred to you, just needs registration

I have just been looking at the website of the Property Register and unless I misunderstand it clearly states that while I can provide a death certificate a solicitor must be used to complete the transfer.
The one I spoke to said they could do a cheap and cheerful confirmation for as little as £1000 approximately.
How many thousands of pounds per hour would that work out at? :ohmy:
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
I haven't left my estate to relatives (because I don't want it to go to someone who feels entitled to it) so I wondered what happens if those who know there's a will don't know I've died, and those who know I've died don't know there's a will. What happens if the estate gets distributed under intestacy law without the will being found, and conversely, what can I do to prevent the will being challenged after I'm not around to argue the toss. Any relatives clearing the house will have an interest in the will being 'lost'. I thought that storing it with the Probate Service would help, but the solicitor didn't want to, and didn't want to answer any of these questions either. I'd have found someone else, but by the time she was being difficult and evasive I'd already signed a contract. It's another reason why I want to make a new will, but keep putting it off because I don't know how to stop the same happening again.

In a will you will appoint executors. Presumably you will have asked them beforehand so they will know there's a will. Maybe give them a copy, or tell them where the official copy is. A lot of people, myself included, choose the primary beneficieries as executors
 

SpokeyDokey

67, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
I haven't left my estate to relatives (because I don't want it to go to someone who feels entitled to it) so I wondered what happens if those who know there's a will don't know I've died, and those who know I've died don't know there's a will. What happens if the estate gets distributed under intestacy law without the will being found, and conversely, what can I do to prevent the will being challenged after I'm not around to argue the toss. Any relatives clearing the house will have an interest in the will being 'lost'. I thought that storing it with the Probate Service would help, but the solicitor didn't want to, and didn't want to answer any of these questions either. I'd have found someone else, but by the time she was being difficult and evasive I'd already signed a contract. It's another reason why I want to make a new will, but keep putting it off because I don't know how to stop the same happening again.

How to store a Will:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi.../how-to-store-a-will-with-the-probate-service
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
I wanted them to do it so that I don't have to find the witnesses, but now that my will's public knowledge I need to make a new one anyway. I wanted to know if there's anything I can do to prevent it being challenged, but they didn't seem to want me to do that.

One standard term in wills it is consider good practice to include is "I repudiate all previous wills" - but please check correct wording. This (a) does what it says, and (b) avoids any need or dodgy search for previous extant wills.

In any case it's still worth burning any signed copies of older wills
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
I wanted them to do it so that I don't have to find the witnesses, but now that my will's public knowledge I need to make a new one anyway. I wanted to know if there's anything I can do to prevent it being challenged, but they didn't seem to want me to do that.

In terms of preventing a challenge, a good idea would be to include a letter of exclusion with the will.

This would list who you don't want to inherit and why.

In cases such as yours, the problem with just making a will is that it routinely only lists who is going to inherit.

By adding a letter of exclusion it will make it very difficult, next to impossible, for those named in the letter to mount a challenge.
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
That's not the case here...

I think two hearings at the Court of Appeal and a couple of judgements in between, over several years, does put overturning the will into the 'difficult' category.

Even then, the excluded person only got a third, when as a sole surviving child of a widow, she probably thought she was entitled to the lot, give or take a grand or two to the gardener and the church flowers circle.

As @presta has observed, he can only do so much prior to his death.

A letter of exclusion will make his wishes much more likely to withstand any challenge, so he would be daft not to write one.
 

Rocky

Hello decadence
In terms of preventing a challenge, a good idea would be to include a letter of exclusion with the will.

This would list who you don't want to inherit and why.

In cases such as yours, the problem with just making a will is that it routinely only lists who is going to inherit.

By adding a letter of exclusion it will make it very difficult, next to impossible, for those named in the letter to mount a challenge.

Nice to see you Paley :smile:

I trust you’ve been keeping well.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Nice to see you Paley :smile:

I trust you’ve been keeping well.

Thanks, still rather bumping along at the bottom health-wise.

To get back on topic, I wonder if it wasn't a hollow victory for the lass who got her mother's will partially over-turned.

Having a case in and out of the High Court for several years will not have been cheap, high five figures in legal costs, if not more.

She got £164,000, but I bet most of that would have gone to her lawyers.

It would have been different had she been awarded the lot - nearly half a mill - but she wasn't.
 
Couple of questions, if anyone can be so kind. I am the executor for 2 people, 1 still with us and 1 deceased.
  1. The deceased had an older will which was not acted upon, is it worth keeping this for future?
  2. The deceased is named in the other will as a beneficiary. As they pre decease them should it be re-written? The will is quite basic and does not specify what should happen in this situation.
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
Couple of questions, if anyone can be so kind. I am the executor for 2 people, 1 still with us and 1 deceased.
  1. The deceased had an older will which was not acted upon, is it worth keeping this for future?
  2. The deceased is named in the other will as a beneficiary. As they pre decease them should it be re-written? The will is quite basic and does not specify what should happen in this situation.

1 If the new will, the one that was acted upon, says something like "I revoke all previous wills", the old will was revoked and all is well. It is standard practice to always do this. Without this I think there may be some argument that both are valid, which presents problems if they contradict. You should always destroy all wills if you make a new one to really make sure. As executor it is not for you to destroy (unrevoked) old wills, and you could be on a sticky wicket if you did so, or did not properly take into account the old will, assuming you were aware of if at the time. If the later one had the "revoke previous", clause then all is well.

Wills are automatically revoked on marriage or divorce, unless deliberately avoided by saying "will is written in the expectation of marriage to such and such" or whatever

2. From memory, but it's worth checking as I'm not certain, if named beneficiery is dead, then the bequest goes to their heirs - not sure if this would be via what their own will said, or following official rules halves quarters, eights to children grandchildren etc.

Thus, it is better to say specifically in the will. eg my best tweed suit to accycyclist providing he is still alive at the time of my death. (and optionally, to whoever else otherwise).
 
1 If the new will, the one that was acted upon, says something like "I revoke all previous wills", the old will was revoked and all is well. It is standard practice to always do this. Without this I think there may be some argument that both are valid, which presents problems if they contradict. You should always destroy all wills if you make a new one to really make sure. As executor it is not for you to destroy (unrevoked) old wills, and you could be on a sticky wicket if you did so, or did not properly take into account the old will, assuming you were aware of if at the time. If the later one had the "revoke previous", clause then all is well.

Wills are automatically revoked on marriage or divorce, unless deliberately avoided by saying "will is written in the expectation of marriage to such and such" or whatever

2. From memory, but it's worth checking as I'm not certain, if named beneficiery is dead, then the bequest goes to their heirs - not sure if this would be via what their own will said, or following official rules halves quarters, eights to children grandchildren etc.

Thus, it is better to say specifically in the will. eg my best tweed suit to accycyclist providing he is still alive at the time of my death. (and optionally, to whoever else otherwise).

Cheers.

For (1) I think I'll keep the old will, its not doing any harm in a file stored away and the new will is being acted upon. It does says the "I revoke" text in it.

For (2) I think I'll contact the will maker, they probably don't know it'll revert to the heirs (of which I am one). They may not want other heirs to benefit.

I have no tweed suits to leave to Accy, I have a nice pair of slip on slippers he could have though ^_^
 
I am retired now, but was the director of a Will Writing company and in the course of my career wrote about 6,500 Wills from everyone from single mums on benefits to multimillionaires.

I'm not going to give anyone specific advice (I am on my retirement insurance so I can't and besides my CPD is out of date), but I am a bit alarmed by some of the things people are saying here. In particular:

I had my first will done, by a will writing company (this choice was against my better judgement but I was over-ruled). To be fair, what was done, and the fee, was OK for what it was, but it was clear fairly quickly that I (totally a lay person who'd once read a book) knew more about wills than the will writing person. Though in fairness
it was OK there is no way they'd cope with anything not 100% simple.
In the course of my career, I met a lot of people who shared your belief that reading a book is going to qualify you to write your Will. My former industry makes an astonishing amount of money fixing the mistakes of people like you. Contentious probate is far more valuable to the industry than Wills.

The main problem with DIY Wills is of there is a problem with the validity of your Will and you've written it yourself, you will never know whether it has been done correctly or not, because you won't be alive to see it proved. Rest assured your kids will find out if you made a mistake. A significant number of homemade Wills fail, mostly because of incorrect execution.

1 If the new will, the one that was acted upon, says something like "I revoke all previous wills", the old will was revoked and all is well. It is standard practice to always do this. Without this I think there may be some argument that both are valid, which presents problems if they contradict. You should always destroy all wills if you make a new one to really make sure. As executor it is not for you to destroy (unrevoked) old wills, and you could be on a sticky wicket if you did so, or did not properly take into account the old will, assuming you were aware of if at the time. If the later one had the "revoke previous", clause then all is well.

You can only ever have one Will. When you execute a new one, the old one is revoked. That is the reason it is called a Last Will and Testament.

A quick call to the bank and/or Land registry will tell you what to do and how. Like you say everything transferred to you, just needs registration
It won't. The law around property ownership is extremely complicated. You can make an awful mess of things like this if you aren't careful. Again, the legal industy LOVES people that DIY stuff like this.

The case illustrates that you cannot just exclude eg a child from a Will and expect it to be non-contestible.

Seems to be a (worrying) minefield tbh.
Well, the law is contradictory. The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 2005 says that children (or indeed, anyone you've regularly been supporting financially) has a right to inherit some of your estate, but it also says that it is fair that the inheritance received can be nothing. You can put anything you want in a Will.

If you exclude somebody from a Will, they normally appoint a solicitor who will send what is called a "Larke v Nugus letter" to whoever wrote their Will. I get them occasionally. I have to pull someone's case notes up and send them along with the Will to explain why the Will is the way it is. I've never had a Will challenged, because my notes protect the beneficiaries chosen by the testator. The letter explaining the situation is a common first line of defence as writing the reasons someone isn't to inherit in a Will would be considered "scandalous" which could lead to the part of the Will where someone was excluded being removed from the Will before probate is granted.

To be able to give proper advice about this, please don't rely on what random people tell you on the Internet. There is much more to giving legal advice than having read a book about Wills and reading things on the Internet.

Unions can be OK, but the options on offer can be fairly limited and my professional experience is when you explain what people can do in a Will they often make a different choice to the one they thought they were going to make.

My advice to OP is to make an appointment with a professional. A solicitor might be a good choice, but the pricing can be rather opaque. Willwriters are usually better value because they normally do fixed fees. Find a qualified one. www.ipw.org.uk is a good place to start.
 
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